Ep.21 Liberated man interview w/ Adrian Moy

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Hello, hello, and welcome to the Borealis

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experience. I'm your host Aurora, and I'm very excited to

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have Adrian Moy with me. He was on the show, a couple weeks ago,

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we talked about suppressed masculinity, and what we

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observe, like the mixed mixed mixed messages between men and

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women, and then the masculine, feeling suppressed, the

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feminine, feeling controlled and not able to express themselves

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free. And yeah, it's just a big mess that we're observing there.

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And we want to make sense of it, which we did in last episode,

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and today, we want to offer resolution solution to the gap

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that we see in like between the masculine and the feminine. So

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I'm very excited to hear you out. Adrian, I know people out

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there are very hot to to hear this episode. So let's dive into

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it. And listen to what you have to say about the solutions that

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we could. I don't know maybe offer to people the healing that

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could happen in society. And yeah, the stage is yours.

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Okay, hello, Aurora. How are you, dear?

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Very, very good. Thank you. How are you?

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Yeah, I'm great. And I'm happy to be back here again with you.

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And just for our listeners, for them to know, I'm going to do

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something really wild and fun today. Since this is not a

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recorded zoom video that we're sharing, but a podcast and they

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can't see me. Today is my birthday. So since we're talking

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about things that are very raw and vulnerable, being my

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birthday, I thought I'd show up for this episode naked and my

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birthday suit. totally kidding. I totally kidding. That's not

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happening. But it's gonna just be fun to say that.

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Yeah, we just lost half of the listeners. But

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I think we probably gained more listeners who will let it ride.

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Just Hey. Yes, so thank you for the introduction. And yes, last

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episode, I'm gonna put a link in this on my page when I post it

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to the episode for people who didn't listen to that, and are

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just now getting on to this so they can catch up to where we

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are. Last episode, we talked about masculine, suppressed

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masculinity, and where we see where that stems from, and the

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effect that it has on society. And how it creates a rift and a

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gap, a chasm between communication between men and

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women healthy communication, where that leaves us and what it

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creates in our society. And so like you said, this is healing

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that we're talking about this is medicine, this is where we want

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to move to. So like I told you, in our pre warm up, I got quite

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a bit of feedback from the last episode. One was a lot of people

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love that we're having this conversation. And they want to

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hear more, and we're on the right path to was people who had

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a very hard aversion to this because it triggered that and

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they weren't able to see that this is a proper way to move

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forward, at least not for them. They were challenged by it. And

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then the third was people who did have many beautiful, male,

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masculine, gentle, strong, powerful, confident role models

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in their lives that weren't cut off from their emotions. And so

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for them, I say Good for you. They're not necessarily the

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target audience, but it's also not bad for people who are in

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that world to understand there's a different world out there that

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a lot of us see on a regular basis. So real quick synapses.

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masking a suppressed masculine suppress masculinity. Really

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quick, I want to touch base on that there is a difference

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between being machismo and masculine energy. You know,

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being a well rounded, handsome, or not handsome but put together

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person, male or female, but we're talking about the men is

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one thing, and they can see this man is what people call machismo

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is the word that I hear very much. It's a very masculine

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trait that people see in a man but that's not the mask. An

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energy that we're talking about, we're talking about the

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masculine energy code of a man who is confident within himself

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to be a loving, kind, gentle, compassionate person. And the

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lack of that that we see in our regular life leaves us

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wondering, where is this? Now again, it's not like these

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things aren't available. In our world. It's not like, there are

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no men out there who are beautiful, loving, gentle, wise,

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good listening, supportive men, there are. But predominantly,

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the biggest thing that we've seen in our day and age is the

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average man. And the way the average man lives, his life, and

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how he goes out into the world, and depicts himself and shows up

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for other people to his other fellow men, and even more so to

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women, has been a very big hurdle. In our healthy

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community. I see women constantly being harassed on

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social media. I see women constantly telling me how

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they're so tired of men, approaching them in a lewd,

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aggressive, overly aggressive, sexual or lustful man. I see men

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being combative with each other. There are very, there are many

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Brotherhood's out there that are very beautiful. There are many

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groups and clubs and organizations like when I think

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about real beautiful men opening up. Unfortunately, the first

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place I go to is at a alcohol or drug addiction, rehabilitation

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gather. When you get some very good successful rehabilitation

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circles with men, you can see men blossoming in that place. Or

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another example is in the prison system. When the men have

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nothing left in their lives, and they're there with the

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Brotherhood, and they get to sit in a circle and talk about their

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vulnerabilities, all the bleeding hearts that come out

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there. Why aren't we like this in our everyday society?

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This is what we're talking about. And episode one kind of

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spelled out a lot of some of the history that you and I have

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seen. And there's an entire myriad of things that we didn't

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talk about, we could have gone in further detail about each one

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of the different aspects and points we made in the last one.

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But overall, generally speaking, there's a lot of suppressed male

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energy in the world. Because on an average basis, men are raised

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with gentle, loving, nurturing, vulnerable other men, they don't

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have, they don't know. So as far as moving forward from this

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place, for myself, and again, I'm speaking from me, and you

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resonated with this. So that's why you and I are making this

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podcast. Other people may not agree with this or have these

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experiences. But speaking from myself, what I do for myself as

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a man, is I show up to the world for both men and women. How I

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would like to be approached on it's, it's, it's the thing that

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I did for myself a while back, and my own self discovery. And

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in my own desire for personal growth, and self exploration.

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One of the things I realized is, when you put too much emphasis

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on looking for validation from something else, you're, you're

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doing exactly that you're putting an expectation on

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another person, whether it be father, a mother, boyfriend,

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girlfriend, lover, son, child, mother, neighbor, stranger, you

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put any expectation on someone else, you're setting yourself up

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to rely on them for that validation for that expectation.

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I stopped doing that, because I realized, I'm setting myself up

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for disappointment, because now I'm looking for something out of

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someone else that I want for my own sense of security. And I

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don't need to do that. I don't need to rely on another person.

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That doesn't mean I don't love the support and the affection

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and the care that I'm given from people that are in my life that

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care about me, but I don't want to depend on I don't want that

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to be my source. That way. I'm positioned in a sense where if

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someone doesn't show up for me in a manner that I would have

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appreciated or would have liked or had expected, there's no

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disappointment on my part, I'm not let down and I don't have to

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hold the other person accountable for not receiving

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something that I was looking for. So on that journey, when I

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realized a very huge a very big shift, alright, what's the word

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I'm trying to look for, there was a very huge swing on the

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pendulum of masculine energy in my life. And so I would look to

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the Brotherhood for just true bond and connection. And I

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wouldn't get it. and I were talking about all the little

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everyday things we're talking about just a smile, and I gaze

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from a stranger, or having a good conversation with my

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neighbor, or even my own family members, or some of the friends

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that I have this, these men are very shy to open up. And I'm an

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extremely exuberant male. I'm very happy, and very elated a

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lot. I'm very vocal about my feelings. I'm an open book. And

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I'll express myself very easily to people and open up very

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quickly. And I found out that many men would shy away from

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that. And we touched base on this really quickly in the first

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episode.

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Men have homophobia, that's a very big thing. And our society

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deems it fine for women to be affectionate and close and even

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intimate with each other on a very deep, emotional level, but

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men not so much. Now, again, I just want to say we're not

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talking about everybody across the world. But what I've seen is

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the common average is, when you open up your heart space, you

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open up your emotions, and you get close to some, through a

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conversation, or an exchange of an emotional experience. Men

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shrink away, they feel this, they sense this attraction,

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because you get really connected with each other. And then the

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very first thought that my intuition picks up on is they

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think I'm gay. And they get nervous, and they get scared,

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they run away, and they want to get away. I'm not gay. And many

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times I've had to tell them, unfortunately, and I always say

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this to them, I say, unfortunately, I'm sorry, I have

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to say this to you. But this is the world that we live in, I

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want to let you know that I'm not gay. And I feel really kind

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of sour about saying that. But I only say it because I want to

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relieve them of that back of the mind thought. And I see them

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when they're having it. Because I've had many conversations with

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strangers and in my job and in my life, with my career path.

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And being a therapist and a counselor when you open up with

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men. For me, when I open up with men, I feel the sense of huge

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nostalgia, and they get excited. And then within just seconds,

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there's that thought, is this guy gay. And it's some of the

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expressions that I use as my facial expression as the tone of

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my voice is how openly I share some of my body language. But

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the fact that that thought comes up for them, is somewhere where

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they shy away. And that gives me an indicator that they haven't

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had these people that are talking about, they haven't had

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true affection, that male companionship. And some of them

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will even tell this to me that they will say to me, I have I've

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never met anyone like, and they feel good when I let them know

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that I'm not gay, because then it's like, Yes, brother, you can

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open up with me, you can be affectionate, we can share love

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with each other, that doesn't go into sexuality. And this love

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that we're talking about is so powerful, that it's a huge

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gravity. It's a huge magnet and love is in all of our hearts. So

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when you're in the presence of love, you know, when I'm working

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with somebody, or if I'm talking with somebody in love starts

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bubbling up from me, their spirit, their heart, their soul

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is going to feel that low. And what they choose to do is what

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they want to but also it's dictated greatly on what they're

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familiar with. So many men have not stuck around in my life.

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Just because I'm such a bleeding heart of love. There is so

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unfamiliar with it, it actually makes them uncomfortable.

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And I can also see that for women, it's challenging. Like

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maybe I'm not an exception. But for me, if we were to go on a

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date, it would be very hard for me to first believe it's true

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that you're being authentic, that you're not trying to trick

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me into something. And I would think Yeah, you're this open

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book and where's the challenge with the pain because I'm used

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to pain and it's it's very interesting to talk with you and

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I can see Yeah, it's challenging for men, maybe even for women.

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meant to and your love is, is piercing through us and forcing

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us to, to open up and to heal. And this is what society needs.

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But for you I can see maybe that it can be very lonely at times

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or Yeah, hard to understand that

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yes, yeah, that's exactly that's, and I'm glad that you

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you brought that up too because yes, even for women, the same

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thing, you know, when you are showing up as just pure love.

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And I'm opening myself up, and people want to open up with me,

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like you said, For women, you know, they're waiting for me to

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spring some trap or go into a different space with them. Like,

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how can I believe that this person is showing up for me,

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like with the power, and the gravity and the attraction of a

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love partner, but then not even wanting to do that. That's the

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challenge. They think that this force of love this amount of

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love, has to have an underlying ultimatum, like, I will love you

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this much. And then, because I want this from No, I don't, I

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don't need to have anything from you, I just want to be in the

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presence of love. And so for women, they are waiting for me

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to Spring Trap, or they will fall in love with me. And this

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energy will be great. And then if I say I don't want to go that

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place with you, then we can either cultivate a friendship,

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or many women have also left my presence. Because if I'm not

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going to be that thing that they are now attracted to, that I've

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shown up for as though they want to have the whole package, they

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want to have everything. And so people feel like if I can't have

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everything, I guess maybe it would be too painful for them to

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have love without more than that. Which is interesting for

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me. Because why would someone want to say no to love? Well,

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that's where we can get into the other episode of the difference

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between sex and love. And that's a really big topic that since we

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did bring it up in the first episode, many people have been

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like really begging for that one. And I want to give that one

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full attention in another episode. But for this one moving

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forward with suppress masculinity. So setting the

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stage there, how I showed up for how I showed up for myself what

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I wanted to see. You can say, in a sense that my life could be

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viewed as lonely. But I don't see it that way. Not to say that

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there isn't that that sliver of a feeling there. Because I

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definitely know I desire more masculine energy in my life,

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more masculine men in my life. I do want that. But I don't see it

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as lonely. For me, what it is, is, when it's right, it will

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happen. So I'm not without anything, that's not of great

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importance in my life. But since I do have this idea that I

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wanted in my life, I know it's something that I will call, how

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do I cultivate that I show up for the world, the way I want to

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be shown up for myself. What that looks like is true,

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authentic, masculine, gentle, vulnerable, open, confident.

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personality. Um, I wish I could have some cool little video clip

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that would show two second little snippets of all the

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little ways that I do this, I'll do my best to describe it now. I

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show up very gentle from. It's not something that I practice or

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put effort toward. But I do remind myself when I see another

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man, whether they're in my office, or on the street, or in

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the neighborhood or anything, anytime we have a interaction

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when I'm dropping my kids off and there's another dad, there

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are just somebody who works at a school that is a man. When we

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make eye contact, I smile. And I say hello. I feel like that's

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one little thing. That's one little thing. Many people just

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don't even do by contact. One of my favorite hobbies these days

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is I wake up before the sunrises so I can go walk around the lake

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and watch the sunrise. There are many men who do this as well.

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And some of them are hardcore athletes that are running to get

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in their exercise before they go to work. Some of them are just

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lazy in their morning away doing the same thing I'm doing. And in

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all of them I always smile and say hi. And some of them will

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see me twice around the lake or once around the lake and that's

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one little way that I show up for men, where I connect with

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them as just strange as saying hello and how that affects their

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day.

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What they take from it, they could tell themselves whenever

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they want, but when I see how genuine their smile back is, to

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me was just a Hello in a wave, it is wonderful. Those are what

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I call fleeting moments, just fleeting moments that we get to

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show up or in whatever manner. Then another scenario is having

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a gym membership. I am in the men's locker room. And with all

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these men, and some of them are extremely athletic, and some of

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them are not so athletic. But we're all there with the same

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goal, we're going to get some health and some exercise and

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some fitness and be good and vital for our bodies. in those

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places, as well as the gym staff members, the men, when I see

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them, I opened myself up to just have a normal conversation,

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there is a very sensitive place. Because you're not only in this

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locker room for a longer period of time than a fleeting moment,

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like I spoke about, you're now they're sitting next to each

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other, you're at your locker, or you're at the mirror shaving or

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checking your hair blow drying, because you just got out of the

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shower, you're also getting dressed, and being naked in

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front of each other. And it's like back in high school, or

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grade school or whatever. But it's a place where you have an

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elongated period of time when you're around all these other

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men. And one of the things that I noticed there was men will

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open up in that space with each other a little bit, they'll talk

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about their day, they'll talk about the barbecue, let's talk

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about how the work is going or what the family is up to. But

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when you get into a good conversation in the locker room,

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it actually gravitates other men, other people around here,

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and then they chime in. And that's a really great place

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where I get to show them myself. And it sparks great conversation

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for men, it also triggers a lot of because now they're seeing me

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being myself and showing up. And again, there's that back of the

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mind that like is this guy gay, like he's talking about love

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with men on a very intimate affection level and how it's

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missing in the world. And they can't not, they usually find

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themselves having something to say about. That's another place

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where I show how to be this authentic sense of love. And

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other places within my own family. With the men in my

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family, it's very interesting because as big ball of glowing

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solar love light, the men in my family aren't as so prone to

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being that with. And it's not like they've said anything like

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you're too much, or I don't feel that way. It's just that there's

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been riffs and issues that have distanced themselves from me.

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And what that tells me is that, without them saying it, I think

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I might be too much for that. Some of the conversations that

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we have are just regular, complaining about the neighbor,

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or talking about the baseball game or work. And in any of

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those situations when I like to dive into that, and get into how

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they feel about things and what makes them laugh and what makes

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them cry. They completely shy away from that conversation

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entirely. They don't want to have it, they'll actually act

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like I didn't even say anything, and then just keep talking about

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what they were saying. And I'll even go as far as to interrupt

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them and say, Oh, yeah, no, yep, I hear what you're saying. Now

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that you brought this up, I like to ask you about dot dot, dot,

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dot dot, and they'll just stare at me. And they'll be like, No,

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no, I was just saying it because whatever. And they will they

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refuse to have these conversations. So I see how

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people who don't want to open up won't have it. So for me, my

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biggest thing was, you know, I'm not going to push anybody who

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doesn't want to have some conversations. There was a

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wonderful man that came into my life through Tantra, community

Unknown: 00:24:09

circle, and him and I hit it off. And in this Tantra circle,

Unknown: 00:24:14

you do practices of intimacy with everyone in the group, and

Unknown: 00:24:18

him and I got to a place where they invite us to lay down next

Unknown: 00:24:22

to each other, and even to cuddle into each other if we

Unknown: 00:24:26

want to. Now, this was a really sensitive moments. I was like,

Unknown: 00:24:32

Okay, I think he might have actually been the first man that

Unknown: 00:24:35

I've coddled with, probably in my whole life.

Unknown: 00:24:38

Not even my own father, or my grandfather, or my uncles. So

Unknown: 00:24:42

here I am, an adult huddling with another adult. And I'm

Unknown: 00:24:46

like, Well, I can do this. I'm going to open myself up and try

Unknown: 00:24:50

this. And we did. You know, I just we just cuddled into each

Unknown: 00:24:54

other's arms. Like we were just really good friends. We're just

Unknown: 00:24:57

holding each other, like through a tough time, but it wasn't a

Unknown: 00:24:59

tough time. But it also kind of was because we both knew this.

Unknown: 00:25:02

And so we did that. And we connected greatly from that. And

Unknown: 00:25:07

so we stayed in touch, we exchanged phone numbers, we went

Unknown: 00:25:10

out and have lunch, or coffee a couple of times. And then sure

Unknown: 00:25:14

enough after like the third or fourth date, if you want to call

Unknown: 00:25:18

it, we are setting up our next time together. And he texted me

Unknown: 00:25:22

and said, Hey, you know what, I don't think I can do this. And I

Unknown: 00:25:25

was like, well, what's what do you mean what's wrong? And he

Unknown: 00:25:27

said, I don't think I can do this. Because your energy is so

Unknown: 00:25:32

big, and I just don't have it within myself right now to be

Unknown: 00:25:36

where you are. And he was very nice, say it had nothing to do

Unknown: 00:25:39

with me. And there's nothing wrong with me that he's

Unknown: 00:25:41

criticizing. In his own life, he had so much going on, that he

Unknown: 00:25:46

needed to figure out for himself, he was just finally

Unknown: 00:25:49

getting back into society. And I didn't know that about him. I

Unknown: 00:25:52

apparently had been a shut in for like, five years after he

Unknown: 00:25:55

went through a hard divorce. And he's having issues with his kids

Unknown: 00:25:59

and his job and career. And so he, he said he needed to go into

Unknown: 00:26:05

his own space again. And that in my presence, I showed him how

Unknown: 00:26:10

free I was, and how live my life was and how much I just soaked

Unknown: 00:26:15

up every moment. It showed him he wasn't available for that. So

Unknown: 00:26:19

he had to disappear. I'm happy that I was able to show up for

Unknown: 00:26:23

him the way I did. And I'm happy that him and I got to have that

Unknown: 00:26:26

experience. It is a little unfortunate that it went away

Unknown: 00:26:29

because I was getting really close to him. We joke that we

Unknown: 00:26:33

were two brothers from another mother. So that that's kind of a

Unknown: 00:26:38

thing for me. And what I would like to see, like I said, the

Unknown: 00:26:44

way I shop for the world. The way I want to show for myself, I

Unknown: 00:26:49

just continue to be love. Like that's my guidance. I don't know

Unknown: 00:26:54

anything else. People are gonna take me however they want to

Unknown: 00:26:57

take me. That's not my responsibility. I just check in

Unknown: 00:27:01

with myself. Am I coming from love? Yes. Am I coming pure?

Unknown: 00:27:06

Yes. Am I considering the other person's position? Yes. am I

Unknown: 00:27:12

showing up the way I would like to be shown up for? Yes. Am I

Unknown: 00:27:17

holding them accountable for any way they're not able to show up

Unknown: 00:27:20

back to me? No. I'm just being free. And that freedom of love

Unknown: 00:27:27

has been a very big challenge for people, not everyone. I'll

Unknown: 00:27:31

say that not everyone. You know, there are many people who have

Unknown: 00:27:33

received me and love me and we'll be friends into every

Unknown: 00:27:37

single lifetime will ever have. Wow, the space right now if

Unknown: 00:27:46

there's anything that you'd like to say.

Unknown: 00:27:49

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. And I

Unknown: 00:27:58

understand you I understand him, it was awesome. of him to, to

Unknown: 00:28:04

tell you what it was about, you know, to not just ghost you to

Unknown: 00:28:09

tell you exactly where he was standing. And I just hope that

Unknown: 00:28:14

Yeah, you will never be discouraged to be the person you

Unknown: 00:28:20

are because like I said in an episode number one. You are a

Unknown: 00:28:26

pioneer. This is why it's it's Yeah, lonely at times. But what

Unknown: 00:28:34

you have to us, is what we need to learn. And you taught this

Unknown: 00:28:41

guy, probably so much already, and he just had to retreat and

Unknown: 00:28:47

process that. But he will never get he will never forget this.

Unknown: 00:28:53

Oh, any further. And this is what you keep doing with people

Unknown: 00:28:57

on all different kinds of levels. And it's just Yeah,

Unknown: 00:29:02

very, very precious. I don't want to call it work because

Unknown: 00:29:06

you're not working. You're just being yourself. Right. Right.

Unknown: 00:29:10

Right. Right. It is very

Unknown: 00:29:12

prevalent. Yeah, so then, so so some of the other things that

Unknown: 00:29:18

I've seen and also heard from other people is, you know, where

Unknown: 00:29:22

we talked a little bit about where the masculine suppression

Unknown: 00:29:24

stems from our youth. But now here we are in Episode Two. So

Unknown: 00:29:28

what happens with that I know stories of men who have been

Unknown: 00:29:32

hurt by other men in their growing up, and because of that

Unknown: 00:29:36

they now see men as a challenge, a competition and even in times

Unknown: 00:29:42

of threat. I'm going to tell you a story about my own personal

Unknown: 00:29:45

experience with that. And I was the participant in the trauma

Unknown: 00:29:51

that was created. My I was in high school and my brother

Unknown: 00:29:55

brought a very pretty girl over and he was definitely interested

Unknown: 00:30:00

Her and I had never met her before. And he brought her in

Unknown: 00:30:04

and introduced us and said they were hanging out. I was like,

Unknown: 00:30:06

okay, that's cool. And then he had to go run off and do

Unknown: 00:30:09

something in another room. I don't know if he went to the

Unknown: 00:30:10

bathroom, and I just started talking with her. And without

Unknown: 00:30:13

even thinking about it, you know, here I am some like 1415

Unknown: 00:30:15

year old boy, I'm just opening myself up. And I just told her

Unknown: 00:30:18

like, wow, you're really cute. Just say thank you. You're

Unknown: 00:30:20

pretty cute yourself. And then like, within seconds, I think I

Unknown: 00:30:23

was just like, would you like to kiss me? And she said, Yes. And

Unknown: 00:30:27

we had no thought whatsoever. And so we started kissing each

Unknown: 00:30:30

other. Now here comes my brother back in the room. He is

Unknown: 00:30:33

devastated. I am a perpetrator. I am a predator on his woman.

Unknown: 00:30:39

him and I have had conversations about this many times since that

Unknown: 00:30:42

childhood experience. And I've apologized profusely. I was a

Unknown: 00:30:47

young lad, I had no idea what I was doing to my own brother. You

Unknown: 00:30:52

know, it wasn't doing it vindictively to him at all.

Unknown: 00:30:54

Like, I didn't consider him at all. And so I've apologized, he

Unknown: 00:30:58

always tells me it's not a big deal. Don't worry about it. We

Unknown: 00:31:00

were kids, I still know me harbor summers that there are

Unknown: 00:31:03

other men whose stories I've heard where something along

Unknown: 00:31:06

those same lines have happened. And from their childhood,

Unknown: 00:31:11

whether it was grade school, or high school, or even college.

Unknown: 00:31:15

And they've opened up and said, from that point, they will never

Unknown: 00:31:18

trust another man again, they will not, they won't, we're

Unknown: 00:31:21

talking about people that are in their 40s 50s 60s 70s that have

Unknown: 00:31:26

been holding this begrudging sensation toward other men,

Unknown: 00:31:29

because of something that happened in their youth that

Unknown: 00:31:31

they cannot get over. They're turned off by men. And these are

Unknown: 00:31:35

men that are turned off by these are very gentle, beautiful,

Unknown: 00:31:37

loving men, that will not have anything to do with other men

Unknown: 00:31:40

because of how they were hurt. In that scenario, where a man is

Unknown: 00:31:45

hurt by another man from betrayal like that, it is not

Unknown: 00:31:50

the other man's fault. He could have known better, he should

Unknown: 00:31:53

have known better, he didn't, the woman chose

Unknown: 00:31:59

like, I'm going over here, I'm going to do this, that hurt that

Unknown: 00:32:03

man that hurt him to have her without any words or actions. Or

Unknown: 00:32:09

even if she did have words or actions, the bigger thing that

Unknown: 00:32:11

he received from that was, you're not as good as this

Unknown: 00:32:13

person over here. So I'm gonna go play over here now that cut

Unknown: 00:32:17

him so deep, because now he feels less. Now he feels not

Unknown: 00:32:20

worthy. Now, he feels not good enough. And that's stuck with

Unknown: 00:32:23

some men have been so wounded by other Well, they, they see it as

Unknown: 00:32:27

they're wounded by other men. The reality is they left

Unknown: 00:32:31

themselves open and vulnerable to a mere situation where,

Unknown: 00:32:35

again, as youth, we look for validation from others. And when

Unknown: 00:32:39

it's taken away from us, we feel like a piece of ourselves has to

Unknown: 00:32:44

be like we got wounded. And that stuck with these these men, and

Unknown: 00:32:49

now they see men as competition. It could be competition in the

Unknown: 00:32:53

workplace. Who's got the better car who makes the more money who

Unknown: 00:32:57

influences the boss better, it could be competition against

Unknown: 00:33:01

women, which guys look the best, have the best smile, the

Unknown: 00:33:05

brightest clothing and get all the women if they're in good

Unknown: 00:33:09

enough shape or not, if they're good enough listener or talker,

Unknown: 00:33:13

so many ways that men put themselves in competition with

Unknown: 00:33:17

each other, even in their own family. If brothers see that mom

Unknown: 00:33:22

gives more attention to this brother than the other brother,

Unknown: 00:33:25

dad's always giving kudos to that one, because he's the

Unknown: 00:33:27

sports star. He's the successful one. And what happens is, these

Unknown: 00:33:33

men grow up very shy to exploring their masculinity with

Unknown: 00:33:37

their fellow men. Because it just put off for me showing up

Unknown: 00:33:44

as myself and triggering other people because I show up so raw

Unknown: 00:33:48

and so powerful, I show up so pure, and so honest, without any

Unknown: 00:33:53

hidden agenda, it gets them to reflect on what they've been

Unknown: 00:33:57

resisting in their life. Because of those those those childhood

Unknown: 00:33:59

traumas or those past traumas. When they see somebody in the

Unknown: 00:34:03

now we're gonna go to the men and the women, when they see

Unknown: 00:34:06

someone just showing up and saying, Hi, I'm Adrian, let's be

Unknown: 00:34:09

friends and get to know each other and share all of our

Unknown: 00:34:12

deepest, darkest secrets and thoughts and passions. The men

Unknown: 00:34:15

and women are like, what, what are you Who does that? And I'm

Unknown: 00:34:20

like, well, we all should do that, because that's how we're

Unknown: 00:34:23

gonna grow and evolve, and they're just like, Whoa, they're

Unknown: 00:34:25

just like, blown away. A lot of people don't know this. But I

Unknown: 00:34:29

will tell you, there is a group of people that I can do this,

Unknown: 00:34:33

that I found out. There is a whole beautiful community in the

Unknown: 00:34:39

pride. The pride community is a very safe place where I get to

Unknown: 00:34:45

open up and even if a gay man hits on me, that's okay. And I

Unknown: 00:34:50

see it as a compliment. I'm not offended by it. But in the gay

Unknown: 00:34:53

community, there is a true purity of harboring your love

Unknown: 00:34:57

and being your authentic self and shown up, I was on a

Unknown: 00:35:01

committee for a handful of years in the local pride festivals. I

Unknown: 00:35:07

was on their committees when I was a representative and

Unknown: 00:35:09

Ambassador for them, help set up the festivals and the events and

Unknown: 00:35:12

do some of the networking and sponsoring. And when I got to

Unknown: 00:35:18

sit at these festivals and meet all these beautiful people,

Unknown: 00:35:21

whatever their gender association was, the spirit of

Unknown: 00:35:24

the festival was just the love the love as you are. Take down

Unknown: 00:35:31

all your boundaries, take down all your worries, take down all

Unknown: 00:35:33

your cares and concerns and all the ways that you conform

Unknown: 00:35:35

yourself to fit in and show up at this festival with love and

Unknown: 00:35:40

appear open. And there was everyone. gay, lesbian,

Unknown: 00:35:45

transgender, bisexual, asexual, non binary, straight people,

Unknown: 00:35:53

homophobic people, everybody was all there and people could just

Unknown: 00:35:57

be themselves I mean it was even more beautiful to see the

Unknown: 00:36:00

straight people being themselves Yeah, the pride festival they

Unknown: 00:36:05

don't even get to be themselves in their daily life.

Unknown: 00:36:07

Yeah, yeah, it is crazy and I have a hard time to word it

Unknown: 00:36:12

correctly now what with what I mean but when you look at the

Unknown: 00:36:17

beautiful rainbow community, let's call it Yeah, they had to

Unknown: 00:36:22

not all of them but some of them most of them had to go through

Unknown: 00:36:26

such intense pain and fear with Am I going to be accepted by

Unknown: 00:36:30

society as my family you're going to kick me out are my

Unknown: 00:36:33

friends gonna leave me blah blah blah. They have so much pain and

Unknown: 00:36:39

had to deal with that and then meet with people who went

Unknown: 00:36:44

through similar stuff and they can open up to each other. But

Unknown: 00:36:47

for straight people they never go through or not all of course,

Unknown: 00:36:51

but some straight people don't have these challenges and then

Unknown: 00:36:59

kind of flow in between well do you know what I mean? I'm having

Unknown: 00:37:03

a hard time to word it correctly. And if

Unknown: 00:37:06

they didn't, they didn't have epic life challenges. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:37:10

we're constantly keeping them afraid to be anything close to

Unknown: 00:37:13

their genuine self or their true passion.

Unknown: 00:37:15

Yeah, very well said and and to not have that you would say well

Unknown: 00:37:20

this is awesome. I didn't have to go through hell. But on the

Unknown: 00:37:23

other side that healing hasn't happened and that cracking up so

Unknown: 00:37:29

now we have a lot of heterosexual people out there

Unknown: 00:37:32

who have kind of half acidly healed but not still they're

Unknown: 00:37:37

still wounded and they still relate to others through wounds

Unknown: 00:37:41

and not love and and how to create like a safe space for

Unknown: 00:37:47

them now and finally crack up and yeah, it's it's hard for me

Unknown: 00:37:54

to see where how it could happen. But I feel this is what

Unknown: 00:37:58

we need. We need to to be more like fiercely ourselves and more

Unknown: 00:38:07

honest with with how we feel about things. Without fear of

Unknown: 00:38:13

rejection.

Unknown: 00:38:16

Yes, yeah. And so right there. That point, the, the one word

Unknown: 00:38:21

that I want to use right here is freedom. Freedom is the true

Unknown: 00:38:28

wings. Freedom is the wings, taking the leap of faith.

Unknown: 00:38:33

Geronimo, it gives you wings being free gives you wings on

Unknown: 00:38:37

what does it mean to be free. So with my story, and my experience

Unknown: 00:38:42

of not having the things that I wanted in my world, to show up,

Unknown: 00:38:46

and then my decision to show up for the world in that way. The

Unknown: 00:38:50

biggest work that I had to do for myself during this discovery

Unknown: 00:38:53

was to find out where I had all of my own resistance. So if I'm

Unknown: 00:38:59

going to set out on this journey, I have to find out

Unknown: 00:39:01

where I'm showing up in the same direction that I don't want to

Unknown: 00:39:04

have other people experience for me. It's a very simple process.

Unknown: 00:39:10

And it provided the most beautiful results. So the very

Unknown: 00:39:14

first things was where I catch myself judging other people. If

Unknown: 00:39:20

I'm judging someone, if I'm being impatient with someone, if

Unknown: 00:39:24

I'm being critical of someone, or if I'm comparing myself to

Unknown: 00:39:28

what someone else has versus my wife, and I would have these

Unknown: 00:39:32

thoughts all day long, all the time, I'd be watching TV. If I

Unknown: 00:39:37

saw a commercial or a movie show or anything, I would have a

Unknown: 00:39:40

judgment toward the actors and what they're doing and the

Unknown: 00:39:44

depiction that they're showing. When I was at the gym, I'd see

Unknown: 00:39:46

other men or other women with a healthier state of body. I would

Unknown: 00:39:51

compare myself with that. If somebody was at the store with

Unknown: 00:39:55

me and they got too close to me, or they weren't watching where

Unknown: 00:39:58

they were going, they almost bumped into me and I had to move

Unknown: 00:40:00

I would immediately think that idiot needs to watch they're

Unknown: 00:40:02

going, and I'd have these little thoughts. And then there would

Unknown: 00:40:04

be thoughts about my family thoughts about my friends,

Unknown: 00:40:07

thoughts about my lover, all my neighbors, you know, when I was

Unknown: 00:40:10

like, Alright, I'm tired of having these thoughts. I'm tired

Unknown: 00:40:14

of allowing these things. I'm going to stop that. So now I'm

Unknown: 00:40:18

going to watch my thoughts all the time. And it was a lot of

Unknown: 00:40:21

work. It was I was, I was actually blown away with how

Unknown: 00:40:23

often I would catch myself. Because having thoughts of

Unknown: 00:40:28

condemning critical, angry, judgmental, belittling thoughts,

Unknown: 00:40:33

comparative thoughts, you know, where I'm now. demoralizing,

Unknown: 00:40:38

even my own self, like, comparing myself to other

Unknown: 00:40:40

people, not not not being happy with who I am genuinely happy

Unknown: 00:40:43

with who I am and looking at other people and thinking, Oh, I

Unknown: 00:40:45

wish I had that, that they have, or I wish I was like that, but

Unknown: 00:40:47

they have, I had to catch myself. And there are so many,

Unknown: 00:40:51

in one day, there were so many in an hour, I got

Unknown: 00:40:56

blown away with myself, it was almost laughable. But then I'm

Unknown: 00:40:59

like, Okay, so this is where you are, this is what you want to

Unknown: 00:41:02

do, you want to start watching yourself, you want to stop

Unknown: 00:41:04

having those thoughts, this is the power of mind over matter, I

Unknown: 00:41:09

am going to pay attention to my thoughts and find out where I am

Unknown: 00:41:13

putting my attention to, if I'm looking down on someone, if I'm

Unknown: 00:41:17

judging what someone did, if I'm really killing somebody, in my

Unknown: 00:41:21

mind, all those things, if I'm doing those things, thoughts are

Unknown: 00:41:24

actions, thoughts, or vibration. Thoughts can turn into action

Unknown: 00:41:28

that can turn into words, thoughts can turn into how I'm

Unknown: 00:41:32

dictating my own my own being. And so I was like, Alright,

Unknown: 00:41:35

you're not going to have those thoughts anymore. But what are

Unknown: 00:41:37

you going to do with that, you're not just going to cycle

Unknown: 00:41:40

battle your way through a more idealistic way of thinking, you

Unknown: 00:41:44

need to actually do something with that. So what is that as a

Unknown: 00:41:47

guy? Well, here's an example. If I find myself judging someone,

Unknown: 00:41:51

whatever the whatever the scenario is, when I catch myself

Unknown: 00:41:54

judging them, I immediately stop that thought, I'm not going to

Unknown: 00:41:57

suppress that thought, you know, because that's lying to myself.

Unknown: 00:42:00

I'm not going to suppress that thought, but I'm going to say,

Unknown: 00:42:02

What's another way to look at the situation? All right, I'm

Unknown: 00:42:05

going to understand that that person did what they did. And I

Unknown: 00:42:09

am not that person. And they probably whether they're

Unknown: 00:42:12

conscious of it or not felt validated to do or say or be

Unknown: 00:42:15

whatever they were, what concern of that is my, why do I need to

Unknown: 00:42:19

attach myself to that? And if I don't, then don't, then don't

Unknown: 00:42:24

even give it that attention. An alternative to that is, what are

Unknown: 00:42:29

alternate ways to view it? Well, that person is going through a

Unknown: 00:42:31

thing, can I show them compassion, or patience, or

Unknown: 00:42:35

understanding or just merely not give them attention at all, I

Unknown: 00:42:38

don't have to put my attention on them. So I started chipping

Unknown: 00:42:42

through all of my days, and all of my hours, and there's small

Unknown: 00:42:47

episodes, and there's larger episodes, once I got into the

Unknown: 00:42:50

little teeny, tiny, small episodes, then I saw the larger

Unknown: 00:42:52

ones that were playing out in my life, like how I viewed my

Unknown: 00:42:54

brother, how many times a day, something would happen, that

Unknown: 00:42:57

would remind me of my brother that has disowned me. And then

Unknown: 00:43:00

I'd run through that whole train of thought of our history and

Unknown: 00:43:03

our story and where we are now, and I'd rehearse it in my mind,

Unknown: 00:43:06

and in myself up with Yep, because he's not a good brother

Unknown: 00:43:09

to me. And I wish I had a different brother, I wish he

Unknown: 00:43:11

could be different. I'm like, oh, wait a minute, don't do

Unknown: 00:43:14

that. You're trying to change this code, you're trying to not

Unknown: 00:43:17

think toward people this way, whether they're strangers,

Unknown: 00:43:20

families, or friends. So you have to give yourself a

Unknown: 00:43:22

different thought process, you have to be in control of your

Unknown: 00:43:25

thinking. And if your thinking comes from either an emotional

Unknown: 00:43:28

state, or what history has shown you show up for yourself and

Unknown: 00:43:34

change your thoughts. And I got good at it. I got quick with it,

Unknown: 00:43:39

it happened more and more like I would, it would still I still to

Unknown: 00:43:42

this day have all those same, you know, you could call them

Unknown: 00:43:45

aggressive or ugly or darker, nasty thoughts. They still

Unknown: 00:43:48

happen. I'm still human, but I catch them faster. And I can

Unknown: 00:43:52

process through them quicker because the most amazing thing

Unknown: 00:43:54

happened. When I stopped judging people when I gave them when I

Unknown: 00:43:57

gave myself a different thing to think about instead of judging

Unknown: 00:44:00

someone understand that you don't know where they are at in

Unknown: 00:44:02

their life. And either don't think about it that way,

Unknown: 00:44:06

negatively or judgmentally or just don't think about them at

Unknown: 00:44:08

all. When I stopped being angry with other people who

Unknown: 00:44:11

interrupted my day are offended me or bothered me. Instead, I

Unknown: 00:44:15

would just be like, Okay, this person is going through their

Unknown: 00:44:16

own thing. I just need to set up a healthy boundary and not

Unknown: 00:44:19

participate in whatever anger or aggression they're showing my

Unknown: 00:44:23

way. Or when somebody would interrupt me and I would lose my

Unknown: 00:44:27

patience with someone they are not even involved in my life.

Unknown: 00:44:29

They're just causing me impatience at a line or holding

Unknown: 00:44:32

up my schedule or whatever. Again, I'm like, okay, instead

Unknown: 00:44:35

of looking at it that way, understand that the timing was

Unknown: 00:44:38

perfect for this situation and myself to show up. So the

Unknown: 00:44:41

universe is just telling me to just pick a time to breathe.

Unknown: 00:44:44

Pick a time to relax. When I started getting better at

Unknown: 00:44:47

catching myself from having these darker feelings, and these

Unknown: 00:44:50

aggressive, combative, competent competitive feelings. It left a

Unknown: 00:44:55

hole in my thinking process. It left an open space in my Heart.

Unknown: 00:45:00

And now with this extra space, it got filled with other

Unknown: 00:45:04

feelings and other thoughts, thoughts of happiness, and joy

Unknown: 00:45:08

and compassion and understanding, that is an actual

Unknown: 00:45:11

practice that I tell you, when you want to do the work when you

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want to show up for yourself in the world in a different manner.

Unknown: 00:45:18

And in this manner of suppress masculine energy, this can go to

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both parties, both men and women, show up for yourself in a

Unknown: 00:45:28

different way, start with your own work. Because I believe that

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the people that we're talking to today, the people that are going

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to be listening to this are ones who want to either share this

Unknown: 00:45:37

episode with people that they see have this going on in their

Unknown: 00:45:39

life, or they want to take it and digest it and put it into

Unknown: 00:45:44

their own life.

Unknown: 00:45:47

Find out all the ways you can redo your own thinking. And then

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give yourself some other space to have other things to offer.

Unknown: 00:45:56

That was the best tool for me.

Unknown: 00:46:02

Wow. Again, I'm learning tons today. And I love the practice

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that you're applying and that you just shared with us because

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it also leaves us space to respond authentically and not

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react because of a trigger because of an annoying, or

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something. And it's gonna make us relate to people on a deeper

Unknown: 00:46:36

level. Because what you said, we have more space now for love,

Unknown: 00:46:41

and compassion and forgiveness. And we all need more of that in

Unknown: 00:46:48

our lives and self forgiveness, self compassion, you know, yeah,

Unknown: 00:46:53

it's feelings. And to, to be there for yourself and to, to

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kind of nurture your way through to this because it's it's tough

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to suddenly notice your thoughts and your feelings. And you just

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think, Oh my god, I'm such a bad person, I should be locked away.

Unknown: 00:47:14

And no, you can heal from that. And you can heal yourself and we

Unknown: 00:47:19

can heal together. And wow, what you said today was again, so, so

Unknown: 00:47:25

powerful, and I know it will help so many people and soon we

Unknown: 00:47:30

will talk about the love versus sex. And and I'm just very

Unknown: 00:47:36

excited to Yeah, connect with you again and talk more.

Unknown: 00:47:42

Yes, and I believe that that one tailors right into the end of

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this episode. Because that's a very big pivotal thing.

Unknown: 00:47:50

Separating the difference between sex and love, because

Unknown: 00:47:53

love is what we're talking about. And when people get the

Unknown: 00:47:55

sex part confused. That's where they don't open up virgin.

Unknown: 00:48:00

Mary, very well said, Well, I'm wishing you a wonderful rest of

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your day and a wonderful birthday. I'm so grateful that

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you took the time for us that it is a safe space for you that you

Unknown: 00:48:16

feel good here and that you invited us. Yeah. Well, thank

Unknown: 00:48:20

you so much. Well, thank you so much for listening to this

Unknown: 00:48:24

beautiful conversation here. And just as a side note, please know

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that. Yeah, I feel very triggered when a man is so

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liberated and free and so loving. And maybe you felt a

Unknown: 00:48:39

little bit the same. Maybe you felt challenged. And it is

Unknown: 00:48:43

totally normal because as I said during the interview, he is a

Unknown: 00:48:48

unique person. He is a pioneer. But you know you don't always

Unknown: 00:48:55

have to steer the steering wheel abruptly into a new direction.

Unknown: 00:49:00

When you invite change into your life. Sometimes just a little

Unknown: 00:49:04

bit of steering to the side can have a huge positive impact on

Unknown: 00:49:11

your life already. So I hope you found our conversation.

Unknown: 00:49:15

inspiring. I hope I was able to bring value to your life. And

Unknown: 00:49:20

yeah, take good care of yourself. I will be out there

Unknown: 00:49:23

very soon again. Never hold back from sending me comments. If you

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haven't yet, please subscribe to this podcast and give us some

Unknown: 00:49:34

love on Apple podcast. leave us a review. There is so much