Ep. 19 Not the regular ex convict Interview w/ Christian McCoy

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Hello, hello, and welcome to the Borealis

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experience. I'm your host Aurora. And I'm very happy and

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excited delighted to have Christian McCoy with me today,

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we met a couple weeks ago, over a Facebook group called the

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convict connection. Some of you might know this about me that

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I'm totally passionate about talking about the Correctional

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Services like in North America, I feel we all deserve a second

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chance, especially people who were in jail and are being

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released back into society. And we as a society, we have to make

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it a little easier for people to reintroduce themselves into

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society, it is hard enough to get out of jail and to go back

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into this crazy, messy world. And if we could meet them with a

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little bit more compassion, with more empathy, and not forgetting

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that sometimes we're all just one weird decision, one step

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away from being incarcerated. So I feel this is going to be a

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series of episodes that we're going to do here together with

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Christian and also Patrick has his partner because they started

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a really neat project where they help people to find themselves

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and to to feel comfortable being out there again, in society,

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they're kind of the watchdogs. They are the mold in the cracks

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of the system, not to say that the system is rotten and not

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serving us, but I feel we as society, we can do a little

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more. Christian, welcome to the show. I'm very excited to kick

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start our little project here. I would love you to introduce

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yourself a little bit, as much into detail as you feel

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comfortable with the better people know you, the better we

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can relate to you. And yeah, let's just go from there.

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Thank you, Rob, how are you?

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I'm very good. I'm very excited to have this conversation with

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you and to share with people. Yeah, what your mission is with

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Patrick and yeah, it's, it's gonna be a good good couple

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hours that we spent together here in the future.

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Well, I appreciate you giving us this platform to kind of speak

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in in advertise where we come from as an entity and, and we,

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as you stated, we do and did generate group called convict

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Connect. And we started probably, I don't know, five or

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six years ago, and it was more of a support group with five or

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six individuals that had spent time incarcerated throughout the

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prison system within the state of Nebraska. And it was just

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kind of, we got together kind of as a sounding board more or less

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with grew up with, like I said, five or six guys just to make

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sure that we were touching base and we weren't too out there on

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our thoughts or what we're trying to accomplish because as

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we'll get into, hopefully, in the future episodes will

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understand that there's definitely delusions of grandeur

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for people they're setting out for the prison system in to

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society immediately. I think it's all you know, it's all

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seated with good and it started in good intent and rooted is

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trying to do good things, but a lot of times I think, you know,

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coming out, taking it step by step, biting off more than you

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can chew to kind of sows the seeds for discouragement, and

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maybe a little bit of overwhelming feelings that a lot

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of these guys probably had with them before they violated or did

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something where society needed to take them and separate them

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for a timeout by hiring barbed wire and shotguns and you know,

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30, odd sixes and so forth, as far as To protection from

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society. So what we did is we sat down and we did this for it

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went on for probably about a month anyway, we're all excited,

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we're doing this. And we're having it in a Panera of all

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places not to name drop, but it was just kind of a locale for us

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to do on Saturday morning. And notice that it was kind of

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growing, and everybody was getting excited and wanted to

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throw in more, and we're looking forward to it. Well, it's also a

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bunch of gangsters talking about gangster stuff around grandmas

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and grandpa's, that are trying to have their peach cobbler or

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their frittata, and coffee and so forth in the morning. So it

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was a little bit of a different dialogue, probably the most

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patrons of that establishment were used to having or have

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around them at seven o'clock in the morning and Saturday. So and

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we'll kind of go on from there. But that's initially how it

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started. Speaking and, of course, the kind of the rule and

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coming from this mentality, number one, I think you and I

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both know that we need to number one be able to relate to them.

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before we're able to help out in any capacity, I don't think we

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necessarily need to go in and solve problems. But I think we

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need to be validated as being trustworthy, or gone through a

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certain number of steps. So these individuals that need the

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help, the ones that are we're here, they're we're here for are

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able to trust us or at least give us the respect of giving

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some of their attention and some of their, you know, ability to

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follow through on things. And so with me, to give you just a

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little bit of a short synopsis on my criminal history and

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background, I found out it's a little different, not better,

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not worse, I think it's actually worse in most cases, people

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might not look at it, but I didn't get in involved or have

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any sort of infraction with the law, where I immediately went to

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prison once I did. So I kind of skipped the county mistakes and

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so forth that a lot of people do. And they kind of say go

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through as far as grade school in high school, you get up to

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the big leagues, or you go to prison. different dynamic for

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each state, of course, but with me, mine was a situation with

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involving embezzled, we started off as embezzlement, but it

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actually turned into it was a theft by deception and just

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being completely transparent. And everything it was more of a

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situation of trying to keep up with the Joneses type of

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mentality where there's a lot of

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internal inventory and internal research that I've done on

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myself to find out that it's really kind of rude and of

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course, low self esteem a lot of these things that are indicative

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are symbiotic with what these other guys are going through. So

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we I I can appreciate that. And it was a situation to where

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involve banks involve loans through banks, and it was more

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or less it wasn't to fund a gambling addiction or a drug

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addiction or anything like that. It was simply to fund a

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lifestyle where I thought I needed to maintain a certain

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level of of visual pneus where I'm perceived as having them as

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much as the next door neighbor, whatever the case was anyway. So

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that once we got done with and once I was able to establish

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that and get out and involved in this program, then what it did

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is it aligned me with like minded individuals, where I

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really could kind of trust now and I think trust was a big

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thing in my past where we didn't have the trust ability I didn't

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trust that people would like me for not the best looking dude,

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not the can't jump the highest, you know, shortcomings in myself

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and, and insecurities about myself to where I thought that

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people wouldn't want to hang out or do something unless I had

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something to offer. So when you work in an environment like

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that, or when you come through an environment it is different

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and anybody that hasn't been or has been involved in the prison

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system can appreciate the fact when it's a complete respect,

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utopia, it is a utopia it's a completely different environment

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that we live in. Once we're behind the systems, it's our own

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little in the system, our own community. You know, we we eat,

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we have commerce, we have trade. We have everything that goes on

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in society is just the worst surrounded by, you know, barbed

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wire fence. So when you get out it's much different because

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having that sort of structure and sort of respect with much

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dire circumstances that we do in society, it, it's a unique

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experience. And that's one thing that we do have to adapt to. And

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coming from individuals, a lot of times that have will say it

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impulsivity is the number one thing I've seen, that has an

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issue. And people that don't sit down and wait and relax and

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think about their options, or think of a scenario out a lot of

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times as dire circumstances, and you are exactly right, Aurora,

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you know, we are, a lot of people are one decision away.

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But that doesn't justify those that have gone and had

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infractions or had, you know, backslides, or however you want

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to term it, to go to the to be involved in the prison system.

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So once you get out, we've have that get out of jail free card,

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so to speak, already sent are already spending we are much

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more culpable, and much more responsible for our decisions

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than somebody that might not be on something as simple as a

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traffic infraction or a traffic ticket. And to kind of maybe

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touch base a little bit with what you were speaking about.

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Kind of where we integrate with you is when you said fill in the

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cracks and so forth, that's exactly it we look at ourself is

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more of kind of an aggregate program, worthy individuals.

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Number one, we're not affiliated in any way shape or form with

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any sort of programming with any state mandated, you know,

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programming system through the Department of Corrections,

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parole departments, anything like that, we actually are

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completely self funded. We are completely autonomous. As far as

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our mission statement, what we're looking to do. And that's

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not saying that we don't agree with it. You know, we're in a

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state that we have a local college and not to toot anybody

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else's horn, but we do have great faculties and great

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resources and utilities, to help individuals almost with anything

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that they would need help with. We've been accepted. Also

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through the parole department in the past, where we, you know,

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had the parole officers that were telling us that they were

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going to, you know, drug test us and the parole officers a week

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reported to, before the COVID situation happened, we're now

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sending individuals that were coming out, we're in work,

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release, or refresh on parole, and we're kind of intensely

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supervised, we were an option

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for them to come to, as far as a meeting group with them, not

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programming at all, but we were accepted. And I think the reason

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that part of the reason we were accepted is we offer complete

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transparency, we come try to come in with the most realistic

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approach of, you know, anybody that gets out of prison is going

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to come out and they're going to have it already in their head

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that don't do drugs, don't drink, go to work. All of these

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things that most people take for granted. They're not taken for

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granted because they haven't been an option. This is

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sometimes very alien world that a lot of these guys are getting

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out that are wholeheartedly wanting to do. But sometimes

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they don't have the tools to be able to manage it. And when I

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say an aggregate program, we fill in the blanks when there's

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not parole officers to get ahold of the parole offices closed.

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It's after your a meeting or your narcotics meeting. And it's

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just you left with your thoughts. And sometimes these

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individuals that's a very, very bad situation, or a very

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incendiary situation, to where, you know, low culpability or how

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it learning to have culpability and already trying to overcome

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impulsivity issues and so forth. A lot of times it's very caustic

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stew for people to get involved in bad decision making and

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that's not their fault.

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Hmm, no, and like another reason why I needed to contact you once

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I found out what you guys are doing is that you are so

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incredibly precious to society. Like the work you are doing is

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so incredible, because I can totally see that when you are in

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prison. It's it's not comfortable, you're not free.

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You can do whatever you want, but you have structure. You have

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people around you that maybe give you a sense of safety at

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some point you you have kind of a brotherhood starting or like a

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safe place to be where everything is orderly and then

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you're being thrown out into society. And the weird things

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happen. After our right, the weird things happen once we are

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left alone with our thoughts, it's either suicidal or criminal

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or, or whatever comes up, it is so crazy. And you don't have to

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be an ex convict to have these anxious feelings and compulsive

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feelings. But those people needed the most. And that's why

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for me, it's so crazy to see that we know that nutrition.

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Same thing in hospitals, by the way, nutrition helps you with

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your mental health helps you to be stable helps you to have like

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a stable sugar to not slide into depression and obesity, which

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can affect your mind. And we know that Yeah, being slowly

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introduced into society would be a way better approach than just

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yeah, releasing them and letting them deal with all the triggers

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that there is all of a son again. And my my vision is

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really, that we can make people aware of this and that we don't

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demand this from the system to change, but to change it in our

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minds to know that you are just like me, wherever you've been

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convicted, or went to jail, that system trusted, that you are

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good to be released, and I fully trust them, I fully trust you.

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And let's move on, let's start our journey from here. And let's

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not, you know, guilt trip you or shame you for what you've done

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in the past. But let's help each other because the anxieties that

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you have, you know, not feeling enough having to keep up with

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the neighbor. Otherwise, we don't feel worthy. We all have

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that to some degree, and we all have to heal that wound and, and

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to put you on a on a pedestal now and to make you the bad guy

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now is is not the right way to go. And I have so much respect

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for you to share your story here and to to know that you went

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through so much pain, and now you want to help people to not

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feel alone and to not feel desperate. And yeah, it's just

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incredible what you guys are doing. And I would love you to

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share a little bit more how your daily life looks like with that

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mission. Do people call you in the middle of the night? Do you

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meet up with with people and do kind of an informal counseling?

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How can we how can we imagine your work?

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We have and understand as well. You know, some of these guys

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have done, you know, the horrible things are some of the

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stories we hear that if you have substance abuse, addictions

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going in, when people come out, they are the most sand, not

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necessarily hygienic, but sanitary. They follow protocol

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as far as guidelines in regards to their health and so forth.

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And I'm sure he probably is, you know, being incarcerated, I

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wasn't incarcerated, as long as a lot of these guys were no,

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they were probably a little bit more diligent or prudent as far

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as wiping hands and washing hands off and, you know, things

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like that. But when we get out and the reason I'm saying this

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is because COVID has, you know, basically turned everybody into

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Dr. Fauci. Everybody has turned into into a situation that we

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have to do this and then have to do that, which is good, but it

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really does kind of it does segment you know, or

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compartmentalize individuals to not have group environments. And

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with us, part of the drawing part of our tackling fuel is

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that group environment, you know, people you know, like

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things like manipulation. manipulation isn't necessarily

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always a bad thing. And I'm a huge proponent and subscriber to

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it, as well. I think that you know, a lot of times

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manipulation and peer pressure, when applied very appropriately,

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in a good environment does allow some people to see Kind of the

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error of their ways, especially if they're stuck in a thought

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process where they can't get over the fact of, they might

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need to absorb a little bit of culpability just a little bit.

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And that's real, that's hard for us as human beings. And I think

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that's one of the things that it's trying to be a hypocrite

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with, with a lot of these guys saying, you know, we need to, we

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need to practice culpability and self awareness and compassion,

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all that stuff when we see a lot of that baking in the world

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right now. And so one thing that we try to do is get them ahead

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of the curve, as far as acceptability in the society and

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holding doors open for people as they go through and not rushing

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through or allowing someone to go in front of you in line. And

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a lot of guys, I noticed do do that most guys that uh, we come

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out, that we see coming out and social, you know, interactions

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or occasions are perfect gentlemen. Because they know

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that if you do that, in and violate that rule, while you're

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in prison, it very well can end up with your head getting

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slammed in a steel door as a sign of disrespect. So we

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calibrated our thought process much differently. So a lot of

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these guys are on board. And like I said, with a little bit

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of peer pressure, and a little bit of manipulation. As far as

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circumstances, you have these guys on board for doing the

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right thing. And the right thing really honestly started off

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before COVID happened within our meanings.

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By saying just take one other person into consideration when

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you do your decision making just one other person, meaning it

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could be the person for me, it doesn't even have to do with

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what you have going on. But just take or think of someone else.

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Think of how it would affect someone else, even if it doesn't

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affect them at all. That I think kind of sows the seeds of

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compassion and empathy and things to where you're not a

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you're not a sucker, you're not a punk, you're not anything,

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you're just a normal effing human being that you know, I

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mean, we, if we help out other people, then that's a little bit

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infectious. And most of the stuff that we do, is and we're

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completely fine with it is is we don't get, we don't get patted

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on the back, and so forth. And the nice thing about it is

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everybody that's involved with this, all five founders, none of

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us are in it for the glory. I mean, for hear me being the one

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that's out, I just am the one that loves to hear myself talk

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the most. So the only reason that I'm in front of everybody

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is and nobody else is because I don't have I don't have the

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reservations or things and these guys beyond me can tell stories

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for days. And hopefully we get to that point. But this is kind

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of a new platform for us social media, podcasting, but it

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doesn't change the message of what we've been out here doing

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and grinding and helping people out and taking phone calls and

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absorbing costs of getting guys to, you know, Costco, so we can

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get a boxer shorts and jeans and socks and everything that they

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need, because they're going out into the world and they need a

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job, and they don't have the ability. And nobody cares why

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they don't have that ability to fund themselves or clothe

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themselves or whatever. But some of these guys just don't have

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it. And that doesn't make them that doesn't make their

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situation any less to succeed. And we can so if we can help out

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in any way we will, will in in in more of a compassion

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perspective as well. Anybody who gets on our Facebook page

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fantasies, what we're about, we try to have a consistent

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positivity. We just we don't like to completely come away. We

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like to have some, you know that we put videos up of prison

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stories and so forth, because that is polarizing. There's no

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other way to get it's funny we I did a Oh a group talk about a

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year and a half ago. And it was just kind of an opening for a

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lunch and then so forth. And it was just the Very Vanilla

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homogenized prison stories that I've accrued or seen throughout

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mine. And these guys that work in the medical, like the tech

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medical field. It was for a lunch and it was probably it was

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only about 2025 minutes and they sat like kindergarteners, Indian

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style around with their mouth wide open, just listening to how

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we make prison burritos, or the process it takes to get, you

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know, a cigarette or the process it takes whatever it would be in

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prison. It's just it's it's completely amazed these

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individuals so if we have a plan form with that and an interest

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with society and where people go, then we need to get a

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message across as far as how we can help these individual, if

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that makes sense.

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Oh, total, totally like, it makes wonderful sense. And you

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just made me aware again, of the pressure that people must feel

Unknown: 00:25:22

of, of, yeah, trying to be perfect and trying to not make

Unknown: 00:25:28

any mistakes. And in jail, you function a very certain way. And

Unknown: 00:25:34

then you being released into society. And all of a sudden you

Unknown: 00:25:40

meet rude people, you meet people who yet totally trigger

Unknown: 00:25:44

you, or, you know, you hold the door, and the girl is being

Unknown: 00:25:49

like, very ungrateful. And, you know, like, it's a very weird

Unknown: 00:25:54

world that we live in at the moment. And I can can't imagine

Unknown: 00:25:58

it being very difficult. Like I noticed.

Unknown: 00:26:04

Absolutely, and not to interrupt you, I'm sorry. It just reminded

Unknown: 00:26:07

me to say the biggest trigger that a lot of these guys have

Unknown: 00:26:13

getting out and so forth, is being made to feel insignificant

Unknown: 00:26:17

or not equal. So when I say, people going in doors are not

Unknown: 00:26:21

saying thank you, that's a big turnoff, because it's not. It's

Unknown: 00:26:27

not that they have a chip on their shoulder. It's that

Unknown: 00:26:31

they're really trying hard, and harder than anybody else. And a

Unknown: 00:26:34

lot of Scituate, I can personally attest to this. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:26:38

there are a lot of guys out here that are trying with everything

Unknown: 00:26:41

they have, man, they're trying so so hard. And when somebody

Unknown: 00:26:46

comes across and does something, they don't have the faculties

Unknown: 00:26:50

yet, as far as they're generating them, and they're

Unknown: 00:26:52

exercising and growing them. But they don't have the faculties

Unknown: 00:26:55

not to see and to be I think completely civilian eyes back

Unknown: 00:27:02

into the real world. That is rude. No matter who you are, if

Unknown: 00:27:06

you walk inside of a door, I don't care in a prison or not

Unknown: 00:27:10

order and just act like you don't see someone. That's not

Unknown: 00:27:14

how not. That's how that's how scumbags act is what I think, is

Unknown: 00:27:20

just an ugly soul.

Unknown: 00:27:21

Exactly. And but the problem with people who just got out of

Unknown: 00:27:27

jail is that they make it about themselves, they think, Oh,

Unknown: 00:27:30

yeah, I'm still not worthy, I still feel so much guilt and

Unknown: 00:27:34

shame. This is why the person is treating me that way. And it is

Unknown: 00:27:39

wrong, it is because the person is a jerk from the get go, and

Unknown: 00:27:44

he would have treated me the same way he would have treated

Unknown: 00:27:46

you. It has nothing to do with your worth. But this is what

Unknown: 00:27:51

you're trying to make people aware of. And I have a feeling

Unknown: 00:27:54

that you're going to turn people into mindfulness warriors, and

Unknown: 00:27:59

heart driven leaders, because you're going to give them tools,

Unknown: 00:28:05

that the normal person who never went to jail, who lives a very

Unknown: 00:28:09

ignorant life embedded in society will never have access

Unknown: 00:28:14

to because they didn't have to go through this intense pain.

Unknown: 00:28:18

Not to say that we have to go. People have to go through

Unknown: 00:28:23

intense pain. But sometimes the beauty of it is that we learn

Unknown: 00:28:29

tools on how to live a more meaningful life, purposeful

Unknown: 00:28:34

life, more simple life. I only met Patrick once, but he gives

Unknown: 00:28:42

me like the vibe that he's a very content person with, with

Unknown: 00:28:47

not much like he seems very humble about it, at least, or

Unknown: 00:28:51

intimidating. Very maddening. Yeah, it's somebody that

Unknown: 00:28:55

balanced.

Unknown: 00:28:56

Yeah, but he is not the threatening or aggressive in any

Unknown: 00:29:00

way. He's just very confident. And maybe he wouldn't have this

Unknown: 00:29:06

confidence. If he didn't have to go through health first, do you

Unknown: 00:29:11

do know what I'm trying to say?

Unknown: 00:29:14

I do. And I think you know, and that's a good point, or is that

Unknown: 00:29:19

we learn as much from these gentlemen coming out. Or as much

Unknown: 00:29:23

as sponges, they are probably even more so because we're

Unknown: 00:29:26

learning to have a diet we're needing to. We're learning about

Unknown: 00:29:31

a dynamic or a twist on a dynamic or behavioral, you know,

Unknown: 00:29:37

personality type that we need to utilize and be able to help

Unknown: 00:29:42

future ones we're not maybe necessarily trying to, to find

Unknown: 00:29:46

the right path are finding the right way to do things as much

Unknown: 00:29:50

disease individuals that are getting out although we are, you

Unknown: 00:29:53

know, in the same breath, but the number one thing is that

Unknown: 00:29:57

these guys a lot of times, we'll see People coming out that are

Unknown: 00:30:01

extremely seasoned, that come out and don't get upset and say

Unknown: 00:30:06

when they something goes wrong. And you know, someone does

Unknown: 00:30:10

something that we perceive as an infraction, and it might even

Unknown: 00:30:14

upset me, you find guys that are still in that are getting out or

Unknown: 00:30:19

just freshly got out. That said, you don't know what that

Unknown: 00:30:22

person's going through, or I'm going to pray for that person,

Unknown: 00:30:25

or whatever it is. And that's a very, that's something that I

Unknown: 00:30:29

don't have yet still. And I'm trying very hard to do it. And

Unknown: 00:30:33

it's funny, because maybe that's, you know, whether or not

Unknown: 00:30:37

they're saying the right thing they knew, and it was very

Unknown: 00:30:39

effective and tactical that they said it right there. And right

Unknown: 00:30:43

at that specific point. And, you know, I think a lot of these

Unknown: 00:30:49

individuals that are getting out and we're trying to help, we're

Unknown: 00:30:52

not trying to do anything other than perpetuate the greater

Unknown: 00:30:55

good. Yeah. So when we do things, you know, we're all

Unknown: 00:30:58

we're completely self funded. We're not privately funded

Unknown: 00:31:03

through anybody. We help out in areas where we know that they

Unknown: 00:31:06

can help out we did as these on our website gave away 10 free

Unknown: 00:31:12

dinners during when COVID first shut the world down, shut the

Unknown: 00:31:16

world, the world was shut down. Completely weird dynamic for

Unknown: 00:31:21

these gentlemen that are stepping out into an

Unknown: 00:31:23

environment. I've never seen anything like it at the time, my

Unknown: 00:31:27

92 year old grandfather, asking me through points of lucidity,

Unknown: 00:31:31

if he's ever seen anything like this, He neither has either. So

Unknown: 00:31:34

that's another variable in the equation that these guys have to

Unknown: 00:31:37

put in to figure out the solution. So we also, you know,

Unknown: 00:31:41

I mean, just to say that we're empathized in the greater good

Unknown: 00:31:45

as far as what people need, people need for immediate help.

Unknown: 00:31:52

And that allows them to not have to worry because like I said, a

Unknown: 00:31:55

lot of times, little things will take you off your main goal. So

Unknown: 00:31:59

if we can kind of aggregate we fill in the cracks, you know,

Unknown: 00:32:05

we'd be able to hopefully, allow these people to stay on the path

Unknown: 00:32:08

where they can get back, get the momentum going. So they can, you

Unknown: 00:32:12

know, remove the training wheels and just let momentum carry on

Unknown: 00:32:16

them in a decent direction and in the right direction. And it's

Unknown: 00:32:20

a, I was trying, I wanted to have another lady throughout

Unknown: 00:32:25

this, this interview, introduce her because it puts us in

Unknown: 00:32:29

contact with other groups, other groups that now we're working

Unknown: 00:32:34

with the lady who is telling lady, her husband, and they have

Unknown: 00:32:38

a organization or foundation that they deal with helping out

Unknown: 00:32:42

an inmate or certainly inmates, through private funding for

Unknown: 00:32:47

basic necessities, and then kind of doing a think tank and so

Unknown: 00:32:51

forth. A lot of times and using social media, if you're really

Unknown: 00:32:55

doing the right thing, it does allow us kind of an engine to

Unknown: 00:32:59

where we can highlight or we can feature an individual that is on

Unknown: 00:33:06

all paper doing the right things. And I don't you know,

Unknown: 00:33:09

one thing about us is we we practice complete transparency.

Unknown: 00:33:14

So for every good one that gets out and speaking the right word

Unknown: 00:33:18

about what he or she is going to do. There's also another one

Unknown: 00:33:21

that is saying exactly what everybody wants to hear. And

Unknown: 00:33:26

when they step out, their actions do not mimic their

Unknown: 00:33:29

words, and they end up you know, re offending and going back. And

Unknown: 00:33:34

that doesn't mean that they're not any less important. But with

Unknown: 00:33:39

the greater good and what we're doing we're trying to align

Unknown: 00:33:42

ourselves with, with programs that will help out and give the

Unknown: 00:33:47

initiative to the people that everything that they've shown us

Unknown: 00:33:51

is that they do want to change you know, we're not a we're

Unknown: 00:33:55

definitely not officiating, that we don't catch everything that

Unknown: 00:33:58

comes in and love professionally, we have respect

Unknown: 00:34:00

for everybody. And we have everything you know, in line and

Unknown: 00:34:05

in place online to where we can you know, individuals that are

Unknown: 00:34:09

struggling, we can point them in the right direction as far as

Unknown: 00:34:12

assistance through programming, or housing or job placement or

Unknown: 00:34:17

certification for job pantries, things like that we have other

Unknown: 00:34:22

avenues and other resources that we're familiar with and we can

Unknown: 00:34:25

send them but as far as the personal decisions and you know

Unknown: 00:34:30

the the personal fortitude to want to change yourself. That's

Unknown: 00:34:35

really where we're kind of programmed as far as being or

Unknown: 00:34:38

where our program is, is is rooted in as far as our business

Unknown: 00:34:44

model and our mission statement of where we want to go and what

Unknown: 00:34:48

we want to do. Now this is because everybody does make

Unknown: 00:34:53

everybody does make decisions and everybody might be one step

Unknown: 00:34:57

away but you know, there are some agree Just steps along the

Unknown: 00:35:00

process. A lot of times it's knucklehead decision making. And

Unknown: 00:35:03

I think anybody will tell you that civilians are the ones that

Unknown: 00:35:08

have done things right their entire lives. There is honorable

Unknown: 00:35:12

to us as maybe workers, some people that have gotten out and

Unknown: 00:35:16

turn their lives around this perceived other people, just

Unknown: 00:35:19

because people that have done the right thing. And you know, a

Unknown: 00:35:23

lot of these people have thoughts like my great

Unknown: 00:35:26

grandfather, where you just go to work because you have to, and

Unknown: 00:35:29

you just do everything you do for the family, and you're not

Unknown: 00:35:31

special. You're not a snowflake, you do what the next door

Unknown: 00:35:35

neighbor does, because that's what everybody does for the

Unknown: 00:35:38

greater good. And I, I do like that. I do like that approach,

Unknown: 00:35:42

because it offers a very humble, you know, very humble sort of

Unknown: 00:35:48

identity as individuals to do it the right way. And do it the not

Unknown: 00:35:52

trying to reinvent the wheel.

Unknown: 00:35:54

Mm hmm. No, I totally. I totally agree with that, Kristen. I just

Unknown: 00:36:00

would like people to see that we can approach this more with a

Unknown: 00:36:06

healing attitude and compassionate attitude. And and

Unknown: 00:36:10

know that, yeah, people, some people just were led astray. But

Unknown: 00:36:17

they have value, they have extreme value. They're so

Unknown: 00:36:21

precious, we can learn from from everybody around us. And we need

Unknown: 00:36:29

to do this together, we can just keep people separated, and think

Unknown: 00:36:35

that they're going to function because as soon as there is

Unknown: 00:36:37

separation, there is sickness. Because we're all meant to be

Unknown: 00:36:42

connected. We're meant to work together to heal together, to

Unknown: 00:36:46

grow together. And I get it, the system is how it is we separate

Unknown: 00:36:51

people who have done something wrong. But if we have the

Unknown: 00:36:55

intention to release them back to society, we have to do a

Unknown: 00:37:01

better job at reintroducing them. And yeah, once again, I

Unknown: 00:37:05

have so much respect for the work you're doing. Because I can

Unknown: 00:37:10

see now maybe during COVID, even more people are are rising up to

Unknown: 00:37:16

their purpose. It is not any more about well, do you have

Unknown: 00:37:20

that degree? Did you actually study this because otherwise,

Unknown: 00:37:23

I'm not going to believe you, Christian, I don't care what

Unknown: 00:37:28

degree you have. I know you're doing such an awesome job.

Unknown: 00:37:33

Because you approach it with your heart. you approach it

Unknown: 00:37:36

from, from your perspective, from your experiences, and you

Unknown: 00:37:40

have the empathy to understand what other people might need.

Unknown: 00:37:46

And this is so much more valuable than any degree that

Unknown: 00:37:50

you could get through books. I want to ask you one.

Unknown: 00:37:56

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I wanted to say that that's, and I

Unknown: 00:38:01

think, you know, just to tell your, your audience and so

Unknown: 00:38:04

forth, and educate them, that's where we kind of aligned with

Unknown: 00:38:10

each other. Because what you bring to the table is that you

Unknown: 00:38:16

know, that that transcendental kind of approach to mental

Unknown: 00:38:20

healing or personal mental healing? The application can be

Unknown: 00:38:25

throughout the day, however it is, but it does. And I think it

Unknown: 00:38:29

keeps people in touch, and it keeps people connected. Because

Unknown: 00:38:33

the one you know, one of the things that we look at as

Unknown: 00:38:36

triggers is when people start to isolate, once they start to

Unknown: 00:38:40

isolate, it doesn't necessarily always mean that it's bad

Unknown: 00:38:43

things. But usually all bad things, start with isolation or

Unknown: 00:38:49

isolating yourself from individuals because you feel

Unknown: 00:38:52

guilty or whatever the case is.

Unknown: 00:38:54

Yeah, yeah. And another thing I want to add to that is that

Unknown: 00:39:00

people who have been in this protected environments have to

Unknown: 00:39:03

say, Now out in society sometimes maybe feel

Unknown: 00:39:07

overstimulated and just think, Oh my god, what is all this

Unknown: 00:39:11

craziness? And it is exactly those people who can make me

Unknown: 00:39:17

aware of the crazy life I'm living and then I can make sense

Unknown: 00:39:22

of why do I have insomnia? Why do I have headaches all the

Unknown: 00:39:26

time? Well, yeah, because we all run around like chickens with

Unknown: 00:39:31

chopped of heads and a person who has been removed for a

Unknown: 00:39:36

certain time and let's say after 20 years comes back can really

Unknown: 00:39:40

make us aware of where have we come to and where do we need to

Unknown: 00:39:45

go back to because it is all going in into very weird

Unknown: 00:39:50

directions now.

Unknown: 00:39:52

Well, absolutely in like you had said to, you know, getting out I

Unknown: 00:39:58

referred to it as kind of delay legions of grantor and that's,

Unknown: 00:40:02

that's your you're preaching from that book that's exactly

Unknown: 00:40:05

right, we get out and we get overwhelmed because we've been

Unknown: 00:40:08

psyching ourselves up to this time when we get out, we get

Unknown: 00:40:12

out, I'm going to do things different, I'm going to run for

Unknown: 00:40:14

mayor and I'm going to be governor and then I'm gonna

Unknown: 00:40:16

become president, the United States and I'm going to be

Unknown: 00:40:19

Superman, I'm gonna get a cape on the can fly and I can do and

Unknown: 00:40:23

it's, it's your intention, probably, you know, you have

Unknown: 00:40:26

good intention, and I come from the same subscription, but then

Unknown: 00:40:30

you get out and you find out that we don't live on Mars, and

Unknown: 00:40:34

there's only 24 hours in a day to be able to do these things.

Unknown: 00:40:39

And that's where it we do try to help out. And I like working

Unknown: 00:40:45

with that demographic of individuals because that they

Unknown: 00:40:50

can become discouraged really quick. And like I said, the

Unknown: 00:40:53

impulsivity and sometimes we see, you know, whether it's

Unknown: 00:40:57

society based or within the individual or pharmacology or

Unknown: 00:41:03

whatever the thing is, it's a different mentality now in the

Unknown: 00:41:08

civilian world and within the incarcerated world, to where I

Unknown: 00:41:14

heard a convenient, say, at one time is that people to eat, they

Unknown: 00:41:18

go to the Abyss really quick now. And what I mean is that

Unknown: 00:41:24

sometimes you just shake your head, as far as the logic behind

Unknown: 00:41:30

some of this decision making, meaning that if you got your, if

Unknown: 00:41:33

you got your shifts canceled at McDonald's, that's a reason to

Unknown: 00:41:37

run out and run a kick door robbery on somebody, because

Unknown: 00:41:41

you're not feeling good. And you're like, we're like, Whoa,

Unknown: 00:41:44

whoa, whoa, whoa, where did we get into that line of thinking,

Unknown: 00:41:48

well, that's a herd mentality. That's someone that hasn't had

Unknown: 00:41:51

probably anybody really give a damn about him to look at him.

Unknown: 00:41:55

And through manipulation, and through peer pressure, say that

Unknown: 00:42:02

is the dumbest thing I said, dumbest thing that's ever come

Unknown: 00:42:05

out of your mouth, that I've heard you saying a lot of guys,

Unknown: 00:42:09

that helps out because what it proves is there's someone out

Unknown: 00:42:12

there that does, that might not care about him his foot, you

Unknown: 00:42:15

know, may not I'm not gonna move you into my house. But I am in a

Unknown: 00:42:19

situation to where it shows that someone does care, it shows that

Unknown: 00:42:22

someone is looking out for me to say, don't do that, instead of

Unknown: 00:42:28

well then hit me up when you're done. And, you know, whatever

Unknown: 00:42:30

the case is, it's just a situation to see that someone is

Unknown: 00:42:34

taking time out of their day, even if it's through chastising,

Unknown: 00:42:39

to say, why what is going on, like, let's, let's sit down for

Unknown: 00:42:43

a sec, and rethink this evaluation of what exactly you

Unknown: 00:42:46

want to come out of this situation. And it's, it's, it's

Unknown: 00:42:49

ramping, unfortunately, now, and I think it's number one, it

Unknown: 00:42:53

plays into no culpability, and I hate to keep beating. But if you

Unknown: 00:42:56

notice, there's kind of a trend or a pattern, as far as things

Unknown: 00:42:59

that we utilize within our, our group, and, and words and

Unknown: 00:43:04

terminology that will keep coming up. And that's important

Unknown: 00:43:07

culpability, self respect. You know, having a thought process

Unknown: 00:43:15

where you think of someone else, one thing that I'm trying one

Unknown: 00:43:19

thing I'm trying to do now and it's we're trying to formulate

Unknown: 00:43:23

clothing while I'm trying to deal with all sorts of things,

Unknown: 00:43:25

delusions of grandeur, like I just got out. But just a simple

Unknown: 00:43:29

thing of wait five years, we are looking at starting just kind of

Unknown: 00:43:33

a clothing line. And that's the name of like hats and shirts

Unknown: 00:43:37

that just say wait five, and it's like, it's just it stabs

Unknown: 00:43:41

right at the heart of impulsivity? Yeah, wait five

Unknown: 00:43:44

minutes. You think you got it all figured out? Sit down, wait

Unknown: 00:43:48

five and reevaluate. Because we're not day traders. We all

Unknown: 00:43:54

have felonies, we can't be day traders. So you don't need to

Unknown: 00:43:57

make you know, tactical financial decisions now within

Unknown: 00:44:01

the next five minutes. Yeah, whatever you're worried about or

Unknown: 00:44:04

stressed about moving on right now. It's probably going to be

Unknown: 00:44:08

there in five minutes from now. Yeah. Yeah. And that just gives

Unknown: 00:44:11

a different perspective. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:44:13

no, totally and, and what comes to mind when when I listened to

Unknown: 00:44:17

you is that you are not your impulsivity you are not your

Unknown: 00:44:22

thoughts. Your thoughts are there. And you can observe them,

Unknown: 00:44:28

but you don't have to act upon them. They are there and you can

Unknown: 00:44:31

just let them float by and like you say, can't tell five,

Unknown: 00:44:37

sometimes even 10 but but, you know, let it let it happen and

Unknown: 00:44:43

don't act upon it. And we can all learn about it. Because look

Unknown: 00:44:49

at the here. Traffic rage, road rage people wrote. They could

Unknown: 00:44:55

totally Yeah, I can see them by by your T shirts, too. And I

Unknown: 00:45:00

want one to please

Unknown: 00:45:01

what they have the road rage is they have some of the best

Unknown: 00:45:04

videos out on Tiktok road rage video so let's not completely

Unknown: 00:45:10

you know, as long as no state laws are, you know, are broken.

Unknown: 00:45:15

Oh, keep in mind it's not I am the worst one. So, you know,

Unknown: 00:45:19

this is the I didn't this didn't come out of his beautiful mug

Unknown: 00:45:23

didn't come out of the box like this. Everything that we say and

Unknown: 00:45:28

everything that we try to be very casual with a very

Unknown: 00:45:33

professional line. I am worse than anybody when it comes to

Unknown: 00:45:37

impulsivity. And it's just an issue to where, if you know that

Unknown: 00:45:42

there are still impulsive things or or what do they call it was

Unknown: 00:45:47

the corniest thing I've ever heard stinking thinking,

Unknown: 00:45:50

stinking Fang. So if you have any part of that in your head,

Unknown: 00:45:54

yeah, what you need to do is surround yourself or make sure

Unknown: 00:45:59

that you have a good environment with family, children, friends,

Unknown: 00:46:04

co workers, whatever the case would be that do care and do

Unknown: 00:46:09

kind of hold you accountable. And I think for all of us, Pat

Unknown: 00:46:13

is definitely that polarizing member with us. Like I'd spoke

Unknown: 00:46:18

to you before, Pat, I can't say enough about the guy. And a lot

Unknown: 00:46:22

of times it's, it feels like you're telling your uncle or

Unknown: 00:46:26

your dad something to where you feel like if you want to include

Unknown: 00:46:30

them or haven't helped you with a problem. Sometimes you're

Unknown: 00:46:34

free, like you're feeling like you're going to let him down, or

Unknown: 00:46:36

he's going to be disappointed in you. And that's i i think that's

Unknown: 00:46:41

very integral as well that I think that's very important.

Unknown: 00:46:45

Yeah, because that means you still have a little bit of human

Unknown: 00:46:48

blood pumping through your body, and you still have that

Unknown: 00:46:51

connection to emotion and hurt and, you know, pride and

Unknown: 00:46:56

everything, all the good stuff that comes with it.

Unknown: 00:46:59

Yeah, no, absolutely. Very, very well said. We are running out of

Unknown: 00:47:07

time here. Christ. This is crazy. Good. Okay, that's okay.

Unknown: 00:47:13

Now, I also just want Yeah, no, go ahead. No, one thing I would

Unknown: 00:47:18

just like to do is anybody that has any questions, we would like

Unknown: 00:47:22

to, you know, obviously doing this but convict connection on

Unknown: 00:47:28

Facebook, I don't know how we would like to kind of interface

Unknown: 00:47:33

a website with it, I would like to do it only for validity

Unknown: 00:47:36

reasons. But that is coming online, there's a bunch of

Unknown: 00:47:40

things we're doing, I talked a little bit about an individual,

Unknown: 00:47:43

a lady that we're working with, it's in her husband that are

Unknown: 00:47:46

helping out, sending some funds in, we've actually expanded

Unknown: 00:47:49

beyond that, and seeing if we can turn it in and get some

Unknown: 00:47:52

follows and get some success and, and attention to this cause

Unknown: 00:48:01

it would also allow us to really step up and help individuals

Unknown: 00:48:05

stepping out where they don't have help. So if we can involve

Unknown: 00:48:09

this, you know, throughout the United States and get

Unknown: 00:48:12

incorporated with helping these individuals coming out, showing

Unknown: 00:48:15

that they're doing their thing that also gives us a lot of data

Unknown: 00:48:19

to be able to share with employers and state agencies and

Unknown: 00:48:23

everything to give these guys kind of a little bit of a push

Unknown: 00:48:29

once they get out into society, because I noticed that that is

Unknown: 00:48:33

that would be something else that we would be able to help

Unknown: 00:48:35

out. Because that's makes a lot of people stumble, that's

Unknown: 00:48:37

hurdles that those aren't easy things to accomplish. And if you

Unknown: 00:48:41

get a wrong answer, and things and so forth, you have to live

Unknown: 00:48:43

with it. Or you don't have something happen for you right

Unknown: 00:48:47

away, you have the frustration. Yeah, we can kind of help those

Unknown: 00:48:50

people coming out. We know we know what it's like on the other

Unknown: 00:48:54

side of the fence. And we know that when you do hit the

Unknown: 00:48:57

streets, there's a reason like we feel like we've paid our debt

Unknown: 00:49:00

to society, because it's consistently it's consistently

Unknown: 00:49:05

living in a different environment. Yeah, nonstop from

Unknown: 00:49:09

when you wake up to when you go to bed. So anything we can do to

Unknown: 00:49:13

help kind of get them back to where they need to be. That's

Unknown: 00:49:15

our that's our, that's our responsibility.

Unknown: 00:49:18

Yeah, no, I see it the same way and I would feel so honored if I

Unknown: 00:49:24

could be part of this. And helping out as much as I can to

Unknown: 00:49:30

give people a platform where they can pour out their heart

Unknown: 00:49:34

and tell us Hey, you guys are being rude. You guys are being

Unknown: 00:49:39

so insensitive and like appealing to our compassion and

Unknown: 00:49:45

empathy because we all need more of us.

Unknown: 00:49:50

Absolutely, and you can't help what you don't know about it. So

Unknown: 00:49:54

learning from us, like Like I said, you know, seeing the just

Unknown: 00:49:58

the stories how it's absorbed. And eaten and how people just

Unknown: 00:50:03

want more information on that. Because a lot of it, it's it's

Unknown: 00:50:06

like Outer Space living, they don't know anything about it. So

Unknown: 00:50:10

everything is fascinating to them. And if we can do that it

Unknown: 00:50:13

will offer kind of nothing, but I just, you know, knowledge is

Unknown: 00:50:17

power. All the old cliches are true, the more you know, the

Unknown: 00:50:21

more powerful and the more empowered you feel. So you're

Unknown: 00:50:24

absolutely a catalyst in that I appreciate everything that we've

Unknown: 00:50:29

done together. And I know for a fact that there is definitely

Unknown: 00:50:37

you're definitely a part of the puzzle, as far as what we need

Unknown: 00:50:40

to do and help out and so forth. So I think I appreciate

Unknown: 00:50:45

everything that you've done. And like I said, I look forward to

Unknown: 00:50:48

working with you in the future. Hopefully, we can get some cases

Unknown: 00:50:51

coming out and individuals that you can speak with as well. And

Unknown: 00:50:56

other kinds of foundations and organizations that are on the

Unknown: 00:51:00

same page as us.

Unknown: 00:51:01

Yeah, no, I would love that so much. And yeah, we are connected

Unknown: 00:51:06

now. I will make sure to give people the possibility to

Unknown: 00:51:11

contact you if they have any questions, or they can contact

Unknown: 00:51:15

me. And yeah, we go from here. first episode and this

Unknown: 00:51:21

done? Absolutely. And we will be reflected just like on yours.

Unknown: 00:51:25

Will we, you know, like will reflect you and advertise you on

Unknown: 00:51:28

our, on our I think my like my parents says, we'll put you on

Unknown: 00:51:33

the Facebook's with arms on our side. Yeah, facebook, facebook.

Unknown: 00:51:38

Yeah. Well, I'll put on that in the Twitter chat. I'll put you

Unknown: 00:51:42

on all

Unknown: 00:51:43

that. Yeah, put me on that.

Unknown: 00:51:46

Stamp, Twitter and face chat.

Unknown: 00:51:48

Yeah. I love it so much. Thank you so much for your time,

Unknown: 00:51:53

Kristen. That was lovely kickstart of our collaboration

Unknown: 00:51:59

here.

Unknown: 00:52:01

I appreciate it or be well.

Unknown: 00:52:04

Well, thank you, everybody, for listening to this interview. It

Unknown: 00:52:10

is dear to my heart, to have these conversations and to cut

Unknown: 00:52:17

through people's prejudice. And to show people that it doesn't

Unknown: 00:52:24

matter where you come from, you can create great things, you can

Unknown: 00:52:28

have a mission that is life changing for people and for

Unknown: 00:52:33

society. And I'm just Yeah, very blessed and feel very honored to

Unknown: 00:52:39

be working with Kristian and Patrick in the future and to

Unknown: 00:52:44

keep to keep this work up. Thank you so much for your support.

Unknown: 00:52:50

Make sure that you're subscribed on Apple podcast, Spotify,

Unknown: 00:52:54

Deezer, Stitcher, wherever you can find podcasts. And if you

Unknown: 00:52:59

want to send me a tap on the shoulder, leave me a review on

Unknown: 00:53:03

Apple podcasts. Thank you so much. I will be out there very

Unknown: 00:53:07

soon. Again.