Ep.10 The tricky part about dating interview w/ David Lee

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you challenge me so much. Oh my gosh, I love it. By

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the way, we're recording already. So I'm not going to cut

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this out. I love to be a challenge I love to push for

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growth. who know me people who listen to my podcast don't know

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that very well, today with David Lee, and we talk about online

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dating, and dating in general, stuff that is frustrating us.

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And stuff that we finally want to make sense of. David? Aurora,

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hello. Yes. So nice to have you here. And I'm very excited to

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share your Yeah, your questions, your insides, your frustrations.

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We talked a bit about it previously. What would you say

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is the number one? Like difficulty when it comes to

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online dating? You've been dating ladies online for a

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couple of years on and off? Can you see a kind of a red line?

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Yes. Well, let me tell you. I think the hardest part is

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actually getting a response. Because as a guy, it seems like

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it seems like anytime you go to, you know, say parties or

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anywhere in person, like there is always an abundance of guys,

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and a very few females, and especially online dating, it

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seems like and I've talked to different women about this, that

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they will get 10s or hundreds of emails a day, from guys. And

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from the guy sign, I don't think it's just me, because I got a

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pretty good profile, you know, and I think I look okay,

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hopefully. But I might get two, three for maybe a week. And so I

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think part of the problem is, all these women are getting so

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many emails, and they get so frustrated, and just getting

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them to respond. Or to, you know, just get that first

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message is difficult in and of itself. And then from there,

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it's trying to, to hash out a conversation. And oftentimes,

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you'll find that, I don't know, 25%, maybe 50% will send a note

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or two, and then ghosts, they'll just disappear. But then the

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ones that hang on, you can get a pretty decent conversation. And

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I kinda get tired of that pretty quickly. So oftentimes, I'll

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just give them my number. And they'll oftentimes reciprocate

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and we'll, you know, text or whatnot. But it's just that

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initial saying, hello, hi there, you know, trying to get them to

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notice you and have a conversation just enter into,

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you know, a common discourse. Mm hmm. Yeah, I totally see how

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that can happen. What can we do about it, though? I think, like

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I said, in one of my videos, that the most important thing is

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that you have a beautiful, transparent profile where people

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really know what they get and who you are. And then there's

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also less questions asked and more into more interesting

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topics. Like diving more into interesting topics right away.

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But I understand the frustration I think you said specifically,

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you said have a kick ass profile. Yeah. Yeah, because

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that makes sense. Good advice. Because there's so many guys out

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there who just put one picture and and the usual you know, I

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have a house, I have a car, I have a job. And then you don't

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really like the trustworthiness and you don't know. Yeah, it's

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not me. You want to know a little bit about that person

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first and then engage in a conversation. But I really don't

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know what could be done differently about it. Maybe if

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they would insert like video chats on an on a date platform,

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you know, where people can talk to each other right away and see

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each other right away. Then there would also be less

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confusion about the physical appearance. I think a lot of

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times that was my one and only experience was with a guy.

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He looked so handsome on the pictures or not. Do you know

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that fake hands fitness. It was a very natural, beautiful

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handsomeness without any gym pictures also very classy. And

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the conversations when over a couple of weeks of the phone and

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over text, and then we ended up meeting. And I was just shocked.

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Like, the pictures were nothing like the person might talk. And

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I was stuck now with that with that guy for a weekend. Can you

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imagine for a weekend? So when Aurora does something a weekend,

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what were you guys doing? He doesn't, right? So I was like,

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from the off the bus. I was like, This is not good. This is

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gonna be awful. I just I just couldn't be myself. I couldn't

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believe why how naive I was going to be. Why was I going to

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trust that a guy was gonna put his honest, like pictures

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online. And I was so burned afterwards that I decided to

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delete everything. And that was my career in online dating. And

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it went well because you know, we winded as friends we had the

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talk. Yeah, I'm not attracted to you. But yeah, we're gonna spend

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the weekend together anyways. But Yad, so I could have really

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missed out on like, how do you say avoided in my life? And it

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was because it was dishonest. And it is so easy to to have a

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fake profile or to portray yourself in a very good light.

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But then in reality, it's it's so different. And I feel online.

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Dating is like games, like just playing games. And to get

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something serious out of it, like How was it for you? Did you

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ever get a couple of dates out of it? And then maybe a

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relationship?

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More way, way way, we can't go past the story without getting

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some more information. Now. Now my question to you is, how did

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you design this whole weekend? With this guy that you hadn't

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really talked to? What were you planning on? doing? Like with

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your first meeting? You're going to spend two three days with

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them?

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Well, the thing is that we we live far apart and we talked on

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the phone for a couple weeks and texted pretty much every day and

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then we were like okay, if we want to see each other We can't

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just can't just be for a coffee because the driver so far. Let's

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Yeah, try a couple of nights and no sex nothing. Just get to know

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each other in real life. And yeah, when sideways because of I

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felt like Yeah. being led on how do you say cheated on or

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betrayed or?

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Any one of those words? Maybe? Okay, so at least you talk to

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him on the phone, which was a good thing. So you knew he

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wasn't a total creep? No, no, no, no, of course not. No. And

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so he gave off a good vibe with this whole conversation and you

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felt like you connected over the phone? Oh, yeah. We talked for

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hours. Like it was really an hour. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was.

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It was really okay. So so not totally not totally weird. No,

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but yeah, to spend a whole weekend with a guy that you just

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didn't have that chemistry, the unknown, the unknown chemistry

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that you never know, until you meet somebody face to face.

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Exactly. And I thought I, I feel the chemistry through the phone.

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But no, we should have had a video conference like a zoom

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meeting. And that would have changed everything. I don't know

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how I would have communicated it. But I would have went

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through less pain and disappointment from his side

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because it was really it was shitty for him.

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So please tell me you are at least in a Chateau on the Alps,

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or you know, somewhere and I don't know. Somewhere to scenic.

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Berlin, Frankfurt, Amsterdam. Yeah,

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it was that kind of thing. Like, where'd you go? What was the

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town? No, no, no, it

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was here in Canada. It was not similar fancy in Europe.

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Oh, yeah. Are we working on thinking French Riviera? You

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know, something like that? It's just that would have been even

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as good as Keanu. And yeah, that would have been less awkward

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because would have been people around us and you can just kind

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of Yeah. vanish into. But no, it was just the two of us in the

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mountains. And yeah, it was very awkward. I'm just, that's the

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kind of person I am. I give. I give 100% and then 100% into the

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wrong direction. Well, I guess the best thing is, you got a

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good story out of it, or a story or regrets or something? Yes. Oh

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my gosh. Okay, so on that note, it's funny because you talk

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about dating. And you get the carryover from the 50s in the

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60s, and they talk about going to meet the girl and taking her

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out on a nice date, you know, dinner, and I hate to say dinner

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in a movie, but some kind of adventure where you'll both

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enjoy the event as well as each other. But like you're saying,

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sometimes you don't always get what you pay for, or when they

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show up. It's something completely different. And so I

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think dating has to have certain what's the word for it, gateways

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or benchmarks are milestones along the way. And with the

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online stuff, it seems like you have to pass certain checkpoints

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is the word I'm looking for. And so the first checkpoint is, will

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this person talk to me and you know, text over the internet

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dating site. And if you can get a decent conversation, and they

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aren't, they aren't totally weird or creepy. The next step

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is talking to them on the phone, which you did. And if you can

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get a good conversation going, you feel like you mesh well

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after that, then it's kind of a meet in person, but it's, I'm

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not gonna say what you did was wrong. It was gung ho, which was

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awesome. Another way to go about it, though, is to simplify it

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not even debt, because a lot of women will just do these dating

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apps for free food, I hate to say it free food and and date if

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they're in a different town. But simplify it and say, let's get a

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coffee, a coffee has $5. And we can be there for 30 minutes or

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an hour, you can at least put up with anybody for 30 minutes or

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an hour for a $5 coffee. You know, and I hate to say it, but

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there's not a lot. There's not a lot of you haven't invested a

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lot in the date yet until you you know, get to know them get

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to meet them see how they are. And see that unknown that we

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were talking about earlier, the chemistry because everything can

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look great on paper, and you can sound good mesh, well talk well,

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but then face to face that that unknown of, yes, we mesh really

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well, this is awesome. We have chemistry or no, we just don't

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have it. Well, the question is, why don't you feel Why don't you

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want to do this person? And sometimes it's just like, I

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don't know. It just isn't there, whatever it is. And you can put

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on paper or write down or is just kind of, I don't know, I

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hate to say magical. But it's just something that's either

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there or

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no, absolutely. And that's the mistake I've made. It is that

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chemistry that overrules everything like we discussed a

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couple weeks ago. You can have your checklist ready. But if the

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sent the physical send is not agreeable with your hormones.

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And if the chemistry is not there, then it doesn't matter if

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your checklist is green. Yes, you're a big sent person talk

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about that. I'm a big send person because I had that

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experience once where it was a friend and I knew he was kind of

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starting to have feelings for me. And every time we like,

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left, and I went about my day, I thought, huh, yeah, actually,

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why not? Like, I don't want to screw up that friendship, but

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maybe there's something more. And then we started hugging each

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other to say goodbye, and maybe a kiss on the cheek. And the

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first time we did that, I was like, Oh no, like this is not

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and it was not that he was sweating. It was not that he was

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stinking, it was just his natural scent. That was

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absolutely not compatible with my with my hormones, let's call

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them and then I managed to maneuver myself out and to not

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get yet to keep it a friendship and it's it's awesome. Some now,

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but I remember that moment, and then I researched a little bit,

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and it's indeed a thing. We can forget that we're all animals

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and that the natural scent is gonna if we if we believe in it

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or not, but it's going to have a say, when it comes to our choice

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of partner.

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Well, there's one point. Yes, you're right. And maybe it was

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just his brand of soap that he used. Do you ask them about

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that? No, no, I did not. Oh, yeah. That's funny. And my nose

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isn't so great. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But

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I it's hard for me to identify with that, because I've never

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really noticed, since so much as a turn off or a turn on. I mean,

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maybe occasionally. Yeah, but I guess I don't lead with my nose.

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Yeah, well, all women smell wonderful. Anyways, so it's,

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it's probably harder for you. There was that one? I was just

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like, no, no. You like, did you ever get something really nice

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and serious out of online dating?

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Oh, yes, yes, I have actually the last person I dated, I met

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online. And I've had several cases where I've met people, and

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it didn't work out. But we remain friends. And so it's

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funny, I kind of have distant friends. Many states away in

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cases. And it's not like we talk on a daily basis, I just kind of

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see their stuff on Facebook. And it's kind of interesting that

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you can maintain that. Yeah. But it also needs to be a healthy

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relationship if you're going to enter into a serious

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relationship with somebody of the opposite sex, because those

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kind of those kind of opposite gender relationships can get an

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A of your current relationship. Hmm.

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Yeah, they can or Yeah, you have to be very clear and, and good

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with boundaries. But I think it is possible. It also depends on

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the on the people. If there's still unresolved stuff on one

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side, then of course, it's not easy to manage. But that's

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wonderful. So you had really good experiences with online

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dating.

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I have, it's been very rare, that it's been weird or odd. But

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I will tell you this one story. So I was talking to this one

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girl. And everything went well, we texted back and forth. And

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then we started chatting on the phone. And she just kept going

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and going and going. And every now and then I was able to

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interject, and then she would go off again, like this non stop.

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And finally, I was sitting there after not speaking for about 15

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minutes, and she's going on this this strange rant about

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something that's really ticked her off, or I don't even know

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what. And so I took the phone down from my head, and I'm

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looking at it and I take my finger, and I just press that

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red HANG UP button, click. And all of a sudden, I felt so much

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better. I didn't feel remorse. I was like, Oh, this is great. And

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then 20 seconds later, my phone rings. And I was like oh, okay,

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to answer it. Then of course, she starts going off again, that

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you hang up on me blah, blah, blah this other stuff and I

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finally just went click and block. And that was the last I

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heard. Yeah. Yeah, I feel odd odd situations like that.

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Yeah, I can totally relate. I know that you want to hear stuff

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that we're not agree on. But it might be for Next Episode. I

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don't know what it is. But it is maybe insecurity or trying to

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mask something trying to maybe she was scared of being

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dominated in a conversation by a man. Maybe her last

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relationship. Yeah, she was never allowed to talk and you

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know now with you You gave her like you're such a kind and open

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hearted person that she saw the opportunity to totally Yeah,

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open up I don't know if she was really opening up or if she was

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just talking. But you have to be aware of the person who is

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sitting in front of you. And you can just write, you can just

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think about yourself and what you want to do to impress the

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other. You have to see how the other person reacts, if it's

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being received, and have that kind of sensitivity. Do you

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think do you think I'm on a red track there?

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Yes, exactly. Because when it's when we're dating, you know,

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we're having a dialogue, it's not a monologue. And there have

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been a few people that, that just get on this constant thing

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where they just talk, and don't allow the other person to talk.

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But conversation and relationship is all like

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dancing. You know, you'll have a leader, and then a follower. And

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there's a given a take a push and a pull, you Converse through

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your hands, and your your body and dancing. Just like in a

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conversation, there's a push and pull a given a take. Yeah, it's

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not so much like, I think they say, oftentimes, it's like a

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tennis match. Yeah, but sometimes it's not, you know,

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because the conversation is always going for it, sometimes

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it goes left or right or over the net over the fence and you,

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you end up in a completely different spot than where you

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thought the conversation was gonna go to first place. Same

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thing that we're doing here, we've got no idea where we're

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gonna go with this. And so we just do it on the fly. But I

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think it's so great. Because as you talk and converse, it, it

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ignites different areas in your brain and different ideas. And

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you really create conversation, instead of just having a back

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and forth. And that's what's so great about conversing, and

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allowing the other person to talk, and relationships, because

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you never quite know what's going to happen. You just go

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with it and create life with that other person. Yeah.

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And then maybe the other extreme, except if I'm really

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excited about it, I got to correct myself. But I'm more of

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a observer first. Because I want to know, who is that person?

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What is that person about? And if you don't listen, you miss

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out on so many details. If you just talk, you don't learn

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anything new. You just I don't know, it's very ego driven. I

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feel when a person is talking too much. Because they want to

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kind of have an effect on you. But that's not how you win

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people over you win people over and making them feel a certain

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way and listening and not talking that Yeah, I agree.

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Totally. Yeah. Is there something we can? That's all I

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gotta say about that? Is there one one thing that I've been

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going? Yes, yes. Sorry. No, you continue. Okay, so I have picked

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up on this channel. And I am going to advertise it right here

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is called charisma on command. And this guy will go through

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different topics in social situations, like exactly like,

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what you're saying is, as you enter in a conversation, you can

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do things or say things or even have body movements, that can

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elicit positive feelings or negative feelings in other

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people. And in order to do that properly is kind of an art. And

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if you haven't learned it as a kid, you certainly shouldn't as

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an adult, but speaking in a way and, and interacting in groups

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in such a way that you welcome others, and give them a good

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sense of self worth a good sense of self assurance, and just that

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they are important than being included. Hmm. And so I think

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how we interact is is huge. And that oftentimes is how, you know

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you can you can make or break relationships in common

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conversation. So done, right. It's pretty beneficial for all

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parties involved. Mm hmm. Oh, I just got a message here that we

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have 10 minutes left. What I want to say to that is, Did I

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get it right that you learn body language from that platform? You

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were on there? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, like the first thing

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that pops to my mind is like, wow, that's totally odd because

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I feel the body. In general, the body is always the last instance

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the body is at the mercy of the brain. The emotional well being

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and mental well being, and to learn how to move, and maybe

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it's just me because I know I suck at choreography, dancing

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and stuff like that. I can only if you tell me express joy with

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your body, then I know exactly what to do. But when you tell

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me, put your red right, left, your left arm there, your right

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like there, then I don't know what to do. So maybe it's just

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one. But I find that very interesting, that approach

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because if I was to focus in more on my body language, and to

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be more aware, I would also focus in how do I want to make

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people feel? Do I want to make them feel secure, and welcome

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and integrated? Then I know, I know, if I have that in the

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background of login back of my mind, I wouldn't know how to

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express it physically. But if you were to tell me now, to make

Unknown: 00:26:09

a person feel good, you have to touch the right arm, not the

Unknown: 00:26:12

left, many. But not too much, I would get so awkward, and I

Unknown: 00:26:21

would not be able to speak properly. And I would not be

Unknown: 00:26:25

able to like I think I would totally freak that person out.

Unknown: 00:26:29

But that's

Unknown: 00:26:32

just me.

Unknown: 00:26:35

Well, here's the thing. I mean, you do it already, but you just

Unknown: 00:26:39

don't notice you're doing it. And it's simple stuff. And it's

Unknown: 00:26:42

stuff that you can build on and learn. For example, you got

Unknown: 00:26:45

three people talking in a tight circle, right? A fourth person

Unknown: 00:26:47

comes up, what do you do? Open up, you might back up, take a

Unknown: 00:26:52

half step back. Yeah, exactly. turn towards them, you might

Unknown: 00:26:55

introduce them to your friends. But you might wait until the

Unknown: 00:26:58

person who's speaking has finished speaking. And then you

Unknown: 00:27:01

introduce them and bring them in. You know, it's simple things

Unknown: 00:27:04

like that. Things like if you are in a group, and you have

Unknown: 00:27:07

your hands in your pockets, and you're trying to make yourself

Unknown: 00:27:09

as small as possible, and not be noticed, as opposed to having

Unknown: 00:27:13

big arm gestures or talking with your hands or, you know,

Unknown: 00:27:16

something simple as making eye contact, just like what you do

Unknown: 00:27:19

with your videos. As you're talking to people in groups, you

Unknown: 00:27:23

do the three second stare? Well, as you're talking, you stare at

Unknown: 00:27:25

one person for three seconds or so, and then go to the next. So

Unknown: 00:27:29

they feel like they're you're talking directly to them, and

Unknown: 00:27:32

including them all in conversation.

Unknown: 00:27:34

Ah, see. So I could totally learn from that. And I get it, I

Unknown: 00:27:42

get it now.

Unknown: 00:27:43

And I'm guessing you do a lot of that stuff already. Right?

Unknown: 00:27:46

But totally unconsciously. And at the same time I do maybe

Unknown: 00:27:50

stuff that pisses people off to

Unknown: 00:27:56

see, I was the same way. I was like, Are there things I'm doing

Unknown: 00:27:59

that are just not right. And so I've started to go through this

Unknown: 00:28:04

and see what might be causing people to just be standoffish.

Unknown: 00:28:08

And one thing I knew specifically that I was doing is

Unknown: 00:28:12

what I would tell subtle humor. Subtle humor works really well

Unknown: 00:28:16

in movies like The Naked Gun, or airplane. But in conversation,

Unknown: 00:28:21

the problem is that people weren't catching on to it. And

Unknown: 00:28:24

they didn't know if I were if I was making fun of them or being

Unknown: 00:28:27

sarcastic or being joking. Yeah. And so what I've learned is that

Unknown: 00:28:31

I need to back off from that and give what's called a towel.

Unknown: 00:28:36

That's something where you make a joke or say something

Unknown: 00:28:38

sarcastic sarcastically and then you say laugh after it or use a

Unknown: 00:28:42

different voice to portray that. That idea. being like, yeah, you

Unknown: 00:28:46

know, I don't always go to the store, but you use a different

Unknown: 00:28:49

voice. I don't always go to the store, you know? Yeah, make it a

Unknown: 00:28:52

lot more drastic and out of character. They know. Oh, that's

Unknown: 00:28:56

not to be taken seriously. he's joking here.

Unknown: 00:29:01

That's something that's also very interesting when you don't

Unknown: 00:29:03

know when you just don't know and you know, a person has

Unknown: 00:29:08

width. But you It makes it fun. So, but I know what you mean,

Unknown: 00:29:15

like some people are. It's not sarcasm, but they are cynical.

Unknown: 00:29:23

And then it's, yeah, you heard people and yeah, it's a

Unknown: 00:29:28

different way. But is it playful sarcasm then? I think it's a

Unknown: 00:29:33

good thing to to have. But very, very interesting. How was that?

Unknown: 00:29:39

can be so charisma, something. charisma on command, charisma on

Unknown: 00:29:48

command. So if and the reason I started listening to this is

Unknown: 00:29:52

like I have never when I grew up, I didn't really have good

Unknown: 00:29:56

social skills. And I think oftentimes I was off putting,

Unknown: 00:30:01

and I'm sitting here going, I need to learn this, these cues

Unknown: 00:30:05

that most people, it comes naturally to. Okay. And so it's

Unknown: 00:30:09

really been a struggle, but also a learning experience to go

Unknown: 00:30:12

through conversations and in the middle of it, be racking my

Unknown: 00:30:15

brain for those that knowledge of stuff, where it's like, okay,

Unknown: 00:30:19

maybe I should do this or say this turn this way. And

Unknown: 00:30:22

sometimes it gets exhausting. Yeah, but honestly, I mean, it's

Unknown: 00:30:25

something that I need to learn, because I don't do it naturally.

Unknown: 00:30:29

But it comes easier as I'm starting to learn. But yeah,

Unknown: 00:30:32

it's called charisma on command. There's some great videos. And

Unknown: 00:30:36

so I highly recommend it for anybody who wants to be good in

Unknown: 00:30:39

conversation.

Unknown: 00:30:40

That is so sweet. That is very, very cool. I will put that in

Unknown: 00:30:45

the show notes, too, for anybody who's interested. And, yeah,

Unknown: 00:30:50

we're coming to an end here. Shoot, that was 40 minutes

Unknown: 00:30:54

already? And is there anything you would do? So we had body

Unknown: 00:31:00

language and awareness, we had listening skills? Is there

Unknown: 00:31:06

anything else that you would say is an absolute must when you

Unknown: 00:31:10

when you meet somebody first?

Unknown: 00:31:16

Well, when you first meet them understand that they are just

Unknown: 00:31:19

another person like you, and they deserve grace. And people

Unknown: 00:31:24

our age, you know, we're in our 30s and 40s. We've messed up,

Unknown: 00:31:28

we've relationships, and we're single and just trying to get

Unknown: 00:31:32

by. So I think oftentimes, people pull off too quickly. You

Unknown: 00:31:38

know, they think that swiping left is just another way to get

Unknown: 00:31:40

to the next, the other fish in the sea, right? There's always

Unknown: 00:31:43

more efficiency, there's always more people well, sometimes

Unknown: 00:31:47

there's not always more people. And so I think people need to

Unknown: 00:31:53

just go a little bit easier, and give somebody a chance. If

Unknown: 00:31:57

they're not, nobody's going to be 100%. But if you can get 80%

Unknown: 00:32:02

of what you're looking for, it can be a very good relationship.

Unknown: 00:32:07

don't discount people if there's one or two things missing, or if

Unknown: 00:32:10

they're too tall or too short, or whatever. And then just give

Unknown: 00:32:14

them grace. You know, we're gonna mess up, I mess up all the

Unknown: 00:32:17

time. Just give people a second or third chance to say, you

Unknown: 00:32:22

know, let's try it again. Because I'm really bad at this

Unknown: 00:32:25

thing called dating and sometimes at this thing called

Unknown: 00:32:27

life and just go with it.

Unknown: 00:32:30

Ah, that's such a beautiful closing, David, that's come. I

Unknown: 00:32:35

know. It comes from the heart. And I know it will be well

Unknown: 00:32:39

received out there. Thank you so so much for making the time. And

Unknown: 00:32:44

yeah, for being here on the show with us today.

Unknown: 00:32:49

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. This is this is a great show

Unknown: 00:32:52

and you're doing a lot of good stuff for people out there.