Ep.5 Anger, Alkohol and a mind that just drives you crazy interview w/ Nate Rifkin

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Hello, and welcome to the Borealis experience, I mean

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holster raw. And I'm very excited to be posting this

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interview for you here. Nate Rifkin grew up in a household

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that was really not loving and compassionate. and that in turn,

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turn him into a very angry child, and young person. And

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this anger, he carried around for so many years, also turned

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into depression, a full on depression, let's say. And it

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went so far that he reached a point where he was really

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thinking of suicide and ending this miserable life he was

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living in. So Nate will not only share his story with you today,

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but he will also let us know about the tools, the big steps,

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the small steps that he took, in order to live a fulfilled life.

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He used to be very socially awkward. And as I said, at the

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beginning, angry, and now he met the woman of his dreams, and

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wrote a book. And it's helping many more people out there who

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struggled with depression, anxiety, or even suicidal

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thoughts. Welcome to this show.

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Nate reskin.

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Oh, no, thank you, or Thank you for having me on. And yeah, I

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hope this story can really help inspire some people and give

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them some great direction. But the short version is, I was born

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into a family that was really devoid of any kind of love, or,

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like, my parents were not compassionate people, I was very

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angry child. And I didn't really understand that this was kind of

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an emotionally abusive environment, I didn't have any

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perspective. And as I got older, my anger got more and more

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turned inward. So I got more and more sad, I got more and more

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depressed. And as a teenager, which is socially awkward, which

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piled on, it just got worse and worse, because I was angry to

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begin with. And then I got more frustrated, which made me more

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socially awkward. And I, I didn't really care much about

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school could could not get a date to save my life. But I

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figured if I could go to college, and move out of my town

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and move away from my family, move away from the people, I

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knew I could start over. And my first day at college, I realized

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how wrong I was because it didn't matter how far I

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traveled, or if I surrounded myself with total strangers, new

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people, I was still myself, I was still carrying my inner

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baggage with me. So they, I didn't really make any friends

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in college and my grades started to slip. And the only light in

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my life at that point was that I liked working out. I liked

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exercising and I thought maybe somehow I can be like an

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entrepreneur in some way, like own a gym, be a personal

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trainer, or produce products on health and fitness. Like how to

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products like how to work out. So I started thinking, I hate

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college. I'm hitting my life right now. And if I'm going to

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be a business owner of some kind, do I need a college

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degree? Maybe not. I don't think anyone's gonna ask for it. So I

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dropped I dropped that. And I said on my last day of it was

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three semesters in is my last day I still remember I said

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goodbye. I didn't really nobody noticed I was gone. So in my

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early 20s, I moved into a condo in Boulder, Colorado, and I

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started you know, trying to actually did create a business

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selling fitness products online. with that. I actually partnered

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with my brother, he was like the face the business. He knew a lot

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about yoga and other forms of exercise. And I just kind of was

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behind the scenes handling everything. And I have a knack

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for writing. I had a knack for advertising but I was terrible.

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Everything else like I had no knowledge of how to like run a

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business or even just how to run my own personal finances. So I

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started maxing out my credit cards. And it just got worse and

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worse like the same downward spiral that happened like

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socially for me, it was now happening financially for me, so

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I was getting pretty scared. And just to get through the day I

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started drinking vodka every morning, like probably about a

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couple of shots of vodka in the morning mixed with like an

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energy drink. It wasn't Red Bull. It was kind of like that.

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And that's how he started every single day. And sometimes I

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think I had another one another drink in the afternoon, early

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afternoon. And my business started getting worse and worse,

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I started going into deeper and deeper debt. Things weren't

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working out my brother and things weren't working out

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anywhere else. And this was, while I was doing like, goal

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setting and visualizing my success, and all kinds of other

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stuff. Like affirmations. I even had a vision board. When if

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anyone ever came over to my condo, I like hid division for

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us, I was kind of embarrassed about that sort of thing. So I

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was in a rough spot. And this was like, like you said, this is

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right around when I started thinking about killing myself,

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because my thoughts would just loop and loop and loop and loop

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and I felt like such a loser. And I didn't know what to do. I

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was so frustrated because everything that was supposed to

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work didn't work. And I was really, really trying, I was

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really trying.

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Fortunately, I had someone who was kind of a quasi mentor, and

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he was he was teaching business. And I'd kind of go to his

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meetups quarterly with other people. And he was into a

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spiritual tradition called Taoism. And I didn't, he didn't

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really talk about it too much. But eventually He's like, let me

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show you some meditations. And they're really cool. And he

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talked about I was like, Look, I actually go, I go to China, and

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I learned these things. And these, these meditations go

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back, like 1000s of years, they're very powerful. People

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would do them in like, become enlightened, or they meditate on

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the tops of mountains are in caves. And this like, is an

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interesting demand. Like, I was drawn to it. I was like, well,

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this is kind of cool. This isn't like the usual, the usual kind

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of boring, just sitting, you know, sit on a cushion quieting

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your mind type stuff, because I wasn't. I mean, I dabbled in

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spiritual stuff here and there, but I'm like, you know, show me

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the results. It's I I've got my goals that I want to achieve.

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And it's like, I'm not just drawn to this stuff, just

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because I'm, you know, drawn to it. I will I want there to be a

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result of some kind. Well, finally, with like, the Dallas

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spiritual path, my teachers like, Look, this is going to

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help you in the rest of your life. Just try out this one

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meditation. It's super cool. It's even, like rooted in

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martial arts. So and it was a meditation happy to be done

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standing up. So I was like, Alright, let me try. I started

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with 60 seconds per day. And a funny thing happened. I started

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to actually feel better about myself, like the thoughts that

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used to loop and loop. They started to like, and they're all

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and then of course, it was self hatred. So these negative

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thoughts that started to go down, it starts late, it was

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like a dial taking and quieting down. I was like, well, that's

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nice. That's cool. I wasn't even trying to do that. But I'll take

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it. And then I realized my schedule is like, I'd get up,

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take a shower, I will do a minute of meditation. And I'd

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add a little bit of time every day. And I'd still go drink. I

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didn't stop. But I noticed something interesting. I would

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feel good from the meditation, then I would go drink. And I,

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you know, I still like it's such a mess. So the alcohol did make

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me feel better on the surface level. But as I kept going, as

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the days went by, the meditation made me feel better and better.

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It was like catching up to how good the alcohol made me feel.

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And one day, I felt as good right before I took a drink. It

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just kind of the drink made me just feel more drunk. So I'm

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like, I wonder what's going to happen if I keep going? Well,

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within a day or two, I was feeling so good. And from the

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meditation that when I drank the alcohol, like and it was

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sometime in the morning, I felt worse. And that's when I stopped

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drinking. So this is just as just my story. I'm not saying

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it's like meditation, like Haha, you could stop drinking, but

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that's what happened to me. And I and again, it was like feeling

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good. I wasn't necessarily trying to do that.

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Hmm. Can I add some to that? Like, I feel a lot of times

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people don't understand that. alcoholism is there to it has a

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purpose. It's helping us to feel better to cope and right. So you

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have to replace it with something. And it doesn't have

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to be meditation but but something that is not

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destructive, self destructive, in order to let go of that

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because if you don't have something to replace it, you

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have that void With us, so painful to sit. And so and this

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is what people are probably most scared of. Right?

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Yeah, that that makes laws. I love how you put that like it's

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it, there's a purpose to it. And it kind of it ties in to how I

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stopped because I added in something first right before I

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built a positive habit. So as as I ratchet that up, the other

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habit, the negative one kind of fell away, it just kind of

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naturally disintegrated. Yeah. So I was like, well, this is

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this is cool, because this is like real results. And I'm all

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about that. I'm like, I want like to, I want to feel

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something I want to experience something I want to benefit from

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it. So I start other people at this point, we're like, Nate,

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you're you're looking different to something different about

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you. And I like didn't tell him what I was doing. So I'm like,

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Oh, this is cool. So it's not even just in my head. So I

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remember, after practicing for a few months, and just gradually

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feeling better and better every day. I had an experience where I

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felt like I was doing a meditation. And I felt like my

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body started glowing like a light bulb. And it felt really

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good too. It just felt I just felt really warm. I didn't I

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didn't have the language for it. But I was having like a

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spiritual experience. All I knew is that just like, Oh, this is

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cool. I feel wonderful. This is great. So it lasted several

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minutes. And then I like river is still in my condo is living

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in my condo in Boulder. And I sat down on my futon and I'm

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just like, this is like, this is the only thing in my life that

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is working for me. And it's working really well. I feel

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great if I found something that actually works. So I'm going to

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dedicate my life to it. And that's sort of like the

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beginning of how I turned my inner life around is. And that

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was 12 years ago about and I've been I've been diving deeper

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into Taoism ever since then. So that's that's kind of the

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beginning of my journey. Mm hmm. Wow.

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And I read something beautiful the other day that ask people

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who went through intense trauma and maybe even suicidal

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thoughts. We were meant to go through that journey in order to

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help people who are struggling today, like in some religions,

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they for like what do you say for saw for saw that there is

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going to be very morbid and times where humanity has to rise

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up and catch up and then has to go through very painful periods.

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And you seem to Yeah, you went through that pain and learned to

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Yeah, transform it into something positive now and now

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you can inspire others who are struggling to follow you or to

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start a similar path. How is it for you? And your family? Like

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your parents? Did you ever reconnect with them? Or did you

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leave them back then? And now you kind of drifted apart? Did

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you have like reconnection? Or not so much? That's,

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that's a great question. That's, that's a cool one. I've never

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been asked that before. That's awesome. It's very, very

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interesting, because I was when I when I went to college, and

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basically beyond I pretty much didn't talk to my parents. My my

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father and I and my parents are divorced. They divorced when I

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was seven. My father and I would occasionally have conversations,

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but it was very, it was very surface surface level. It was

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very superficial. But we got along. And my mother and I often

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would would go like, like maybe a year without a conversation.

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We'd have like a yearly conversation and wouldn't be a

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good one necessarily. And I knew and they're in very emotional

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shutdown places. So what's interesting though, is I

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monitored this when I began doing my like Dallas meditation

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practice and started like slowly turning my life around. My

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parents on their own, separately started to seem to be more

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mentally healthy, which you know, I just made a mental note

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because their path is not my path. And I'm not their

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caretaker. But I made a note like, isn't that interesting? So

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as time went on, I still really rarely spoke to my mother until

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maybe about what was it three years ago, or three and a half

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years ago, because I actually started working with a

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therapist. And that side note, some people like might wonders

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is like way you went on the spiritual path for 13 years and

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then worked with the therapist. Well, sure. I love using like

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multiple modalities to like, help me out. And this guy is

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really good. And he actually encouraged me to reconnect with

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my parents. But he was very, very deliberate and intentional

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about how to do it. Because his whole thing is like, Nate, look,

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when you came into this world, you had an emotionally abusive

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relationship with your parents, and they were the adults, they

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were in charge, and you your child didn't really know any

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better. Now's your chance to have a new conversation with

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your parents where you lead them and where you are in charge.

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Yeah. And he said, and you can do it on the phone, and you can

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get really quick practice rounds. So one of the one of the

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best things he ever had me do is call up each pair individually.

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So I'd be like, Hey, Mom, I'd like to talk. And I'd like to

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actually talk about our history, and some other things, would you

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be willing to do that? And and she said, that, Oh, absolutely,

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I'm like, great, I will get back to you. And I end the

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conversation, because I'm the one steering the ship and is.

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And I did the same thing with my dad, which was super awkward.

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But the long story, short of that is I'm at a point now where

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I've learned that my mother is still in a pretty bad place.

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However, I am connecting more with my father. So it's pretty

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interesting how when one goes on a kind of on a journey of

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putting their life back together and thriving, that some times

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things can work out with family, mostly I've seen the distance is

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the result. But sometimes that's, that's a healthy thing.

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And sometimes it's very, very necessary. And we have to, we

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have to really release our dreams of that storybook ending

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with the same people that might have heard us. Mm hmm.

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No matter the outcome. It is so important, though to feel

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differently now about your parents and you used to you

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might have felt very angry, you are maybe very resentful. And

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you were still carrying that anger inside of you. Maybe if

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you didn't even feel it and to now, change the relationship is

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such a huge thing for your healing process to for theirs as

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well. For yours, to be able to let go and to not be that victim

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anymore to know that today. You can make your decisions, you can

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set boundaries you can have those conversations or not, is

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incredibly healing and empowering. So thank you for for

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sharing that.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Oh, it's my pleasure. And I really love how you said the

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anger that you might not even feel because that's exactly

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where I was. Someone told me it's like all your angry

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parents. It's like, No, I don't care. I don't I don't care.

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Sure, yeah.

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How was it? Like in relationships? Like romantic

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relationships? Did you like as soon as you forgive your parents

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or kind of knew that? You, you have a different sense of self

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now? Did that change the way you were relating maybe even to your

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friends, but also romantic partners?

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Yeah, yeah. And in fact, being able to relate differently to

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romantic partners was the was the purpose behind reconnecting

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with my parents? Because my therapist was very, very smart.

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And I was just an I had a very direct intentions like, Oh,

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yeah, I would love to, you know, have a great relationship and

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maybe get married. And he could see it's just like, Nate may

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want that. But we need to steer him back to his parents. And I'm

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like, what, what do I have to talk to them for? I'm over that

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easily. And he's like, trust Trust me. Trust me on this.

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Well, he actually he did more than say, trust me. He talked

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about like, Look, I've actually done gone through this without

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Other people, and it really helps. So yes, because what

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happened was, as a result of me, being able to steer the

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conversation with my parents, whether the relationship had a

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happier or more loving outcome or not, I changed the way I

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related to them. And I kind of rewired my brain for relating to

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them. And they were my original programming. So what happened

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was, yeah, when I would talk to it could be on a date I gave,

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when I talked to a woman on a date, all of a sudden, I was a

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lot more open and fun and spontaneous about where I would,

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I would, you know, go with the conversation. Because here's an

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interesting tidbit. You know, guys who were kind of like, it's

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like, ah, I struggle with dating, because, you know, women

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say I'm boring. Like, that's because you're angry. And

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you're, but you're, you're, you've got a lid on it, you're

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shut down as a result. So there's, there's a lot of like,

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what people see on the other side is like, guys just kind of

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boring. It was a flat conversation. The reason there's

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no liveliness is because there's so much emotional baggage,

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stuffing down half of your energy as a human being. So as a

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result, you're going to come off flat. And because your feedback

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is like boring, you never realize it's really the anger.

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That's what needs to be resolved. Wow,

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that is such a thing. I know, people who will listen to this

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will be like, holy I you know, sometimes we're so close to the

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to the key to the solution, but we just don't see it. And you

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made it very visible just now with the lead on and, and the

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board. Like, I never thought of that. Also, when when you blame

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others to be boring, it's usually yourself. Like you're

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not allowing a flow of conversation. And, and then as a

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result, you blame the other person or she was so boring. She

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was so closed up. But it was all you who were not capable of

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being okay was who you are and confident in a conversation.

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Right? Yeah, yeah. Cuz when you say someone, well, someone's

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boring. It's like, well, they're a human being. Did you have any

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compassion for just being able to hang out and see the light

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and another human being? There's always that, yeah, or just be

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like, I appreciate where that person is on their journey or

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something. You can say it's like, well, we didn't resonate

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that Okay, fine. But, but yeah, and saying someone else's

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boring. It's just like, it's kind of it really is just one

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more flavor of the circumstances had power over me. It's

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crazy. How good for you. When you first gave up alcohol when

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you first dove into meditation? Did you have situations maybe

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it's due, you don't remember anymore. But situations where

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you had a choice where it was like, actually, like it was good

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with the alcohol, I can go back. You know, where you had to make

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a decision? Or was it very clear that meditation is taking over

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now and this is your path?

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It was honestly, it was very clear to me because I did stop

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drinking because of willpower. It really just didn't feel good

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anymore. That's just what happened to me. Now, there were

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there were there were other things in my life where there

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was more willpower required, like when it came to like paying

Unknown: 00:24:03

bills regularly, or keeping, you know, keeping my place clean, or

Unknown: 00:24:08

being more social, where I had to remind myself, hey, this

Unknown: 00:24:12

spiritual walking, taking helps, but that's all it's going to do

Unknown: 00:24:16

is help. It's going to give me the inner strength to do what's

Unknown: 00:24:20

best for me, but I still have to do what is best for me. I can't

Unknown: 00:24:25

use meditation to swap out hard work. It's an adjunct. So So

Unknown: 00:24:30

yeah, it was I had those situations for sure. And I still

Unknown: 00:24:34

do today. Mm hmm. Yeah, I

Unknown: 00:24:37

think it's, it's part of our lives and you just got to

Unknown: 00:24:40

embrace it and see that it's okay. You just don't need to

Unknown: 00:24:44

engage in it anymore.

Unknown: 00:24:48

Yeah, and I think a lot of people get involved in sort of,

Unknown: 00:24:53

they dive into their spiritual part of life and maybe

Unknown: 00:24:57

meditation to escape or To get something where it's just like,

Unknown: 00:25:06

well, I couldn't it's kind of like people who kind of dive

Unknown: 00:25:09

into the law of attraction versus like, I can't do

Unknown: 00:25:12

anything. Right? Well, let me let me go try this spiritual

Unknown: 00:25:15

thing. And and it's almost like a way to bypass away that they

Unknown: 00:25:20

really do need to grow inwardly. So it's, it's, it's a, I've just

Unknown: 00:25:27

don't kill the messenger, but I made, it's just like, Look, I

Unknown: 00:25:30

have found that the spiritual path is a part of your growth.

Unknown: 00:25:36

And if you can't sort of use it to avoid an inner maturing that

Unknown: 00:25:45

you need to go through.

Unknown: 00:25:49

Yeah, that's so wonderful, thank you so much. I feel like it's

Unknown: 00:25:54

been so valuable already, everything that you've shared.

Unknown: 00:26:01

If there was three things that you had to write down for a

Unknown: 00:26:06

person who's maybe not quite there yet, but who had maybe a

Unknown: 00:26:10

little bit of an awakening, listening to you now, what would

Unknown: 00:26:14

be the three steps or maybe tools that you would recommend

Unknown: 00:26:20

for a person to help themselves.

Unknown: 00:26:25

The first is having a meditative practice. And I love like the

Unknown: 00:26:33

really simple foundational practice of breathing into one's

Unknown: 00:26:37

belly and feeling the breath going into your belly. And And

Unknown: 00:26:43

what I'd write down for this person is one of the three steps

Unknown: 00:26:45

is we have we're an information overload, there's so much out

Unknown: 00:26:49

there. But the power for meditation is taking the time to

Unknown: 00:26:53

feel, feel the energy, because the more you feel the energy,

Unknown: 00:26:58

the more energy you'll build. And the more you focus on

Unknown: 00:27:02

feeling, the more sensitive you're going to get to it. So

Unknown: 00:27:06

songs, songs, just like that. Now feel nothing for meditation,

Unknown: 00:27:10

heck, I can really, okay, I was that guy. It's not going to be

Unknown: 00:27:15

overnight. It is a muscle that must be built and, and sitting

Unknown: 00:27:20

quietly, and breathing into your belly is a great way to do it.

Unknown: 00:27:23

And also by focusing on your breath, you're going to calm

Unknown: 00:27:27

down your mind without trying to fight your mind. Yeah, so the

Unknown: 00:27:33

second thing I would say for someone is like the habit of a

Unknown: 00:27:36

meditative practice like that, which could be a very, very

Unknown: 00:27:39

powerful one. Because I think, by the way, some people won't be

Unknown: 00:27:41

like, Oh, just sitting and breathing into your belly.

Unknown: 00:27:44

That's no, come on, give me give me the real goods. It's like no,

Unknown: 00:27:48

that that really is that really is a very effective, powerful

Unknown: 00:27:54

practice. So the second thing I'd say is, it's not about it,

Unknown: 00:28:00

fighting your it's not about making enemy of your thoughts. I

Unknown: 00:28:05

spent my first 25 years being at odds with my thoughts and and

Unknown: 00:28:13

having this clash with my own thoughts. when really it was a

Unknown: 00:28:18

matter of stepping off the treadmill of Well, let me think

Unknown: 00:28:22

positive Oh, no, I'm not thinking positive. Oh, shoot,

Unknown: 00:28:25

I'm gonna attract something bad. I can let me just shut up. Like,

Unknown: 00:28:29

why do I keep living as it's like, and most the time, I was

Unknown: 00:28:31

just thinking about something as angry about the, the reason a

Unknown: 00:28:35

meditative practice works so well is you get to jump off that

Unknown: 00:28:39

treadmill. It's like, I'm not gonna participate in it, it's

Unknown: 00:28:43

not a matter of like, Well, let me try it out. Think my thoughts

Unknown: 00:28:45

somehow it's like a dog chasing its tail, I'm just not going to

Unknown: 00:28:48

participate. So And the third thing I would say is that, it's,

Unknown: 00:28:56

it is like, an it's part of your life, like, exercise, or making

Unknown: 00:29:03

sure your sleep is good. or working on your career instead

Unknown: 00:29:07

of overnight. Think daily discipline, and the results will

Unknown: 00:29:15

take care of themselves over the long term. Be pat yourself on

Unknown: 00:29:19

the back just for putting in that five minutes per day if

Unknown: 00:29:22

you're building the habit. And, and, and, and what will happen

Unknown: 00:29:29

is maybe in that week, you know, you're gonna be like, Alright,

Unknown: 00:29:33

this is nothing much. Maybe that month, you'll be like, well, I'm

Unknown: 00:29:36

getting some results. But I don't know, this doesn't really

Unknown: 00:29:38

seem like, keep going. Because over a period of several months,

Unknown: 00:29:42

you might be like, I guess there's something to this. Other

Unknown: 00:29:45

is, it's like, well, I'm feeling a little bit better. People are

Unknown: 00:29:48

treating me better. Life's getting a little bit better.

Unknown: 00:29:50

It's like Well, yeah, yeah, that's, that's great. Let's go

Unknown: 00:29:53

to the point because what's gonna happen is five years from

Unknown: 00:29:57

now, you'll look back and you'll go Thank God, I did that. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:30:04

Yeah. So that's, that is the key. So that's what I would say.

Unknown: 00:30:09

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Maybe start out and do it as you brush

Unknown: 00:30:16

your teeth right? couple times a day, just a couple minutes and

Unknown: 00:30:22

see what happens. Become familiar with your thoughts.

Unknown: 00:30:27

Become familiar with your monkey mind up here and then don't

Unknown: 00:30:31

engage. If it's not positive. If it's not leading anywhere good,

Unknown: 00:30:36

then just choose to not engage and yeah,

Unknown: 00:30:40

very Absolutely.

Unknown: 00:30:42

Because it doesn't matter what the thoughts are. You can still

Unknown: 00:30:46

breathe into your belly. It's like, Okay, I understand. I

Unknown: 00:30:49

understand that. This is just like, My thoughts are screaming

Unknown: 00:30:51

louder than ever. Oh, look, I can still breathe into my belt.

Unknown: 00:30:58

Yes. Beautiful. Thank you so much name for your time. That

Unknown: 00:31:04

was a very, very good time and awesome to get to know you. And

Unknown: 00:31:10

then Ben, if there is listeners out here who want to reach out

Unknown: 00:31:15

to you, is there any platform that you can provide with or

Unknown: 00:31:21

should they just buy your book? Of course mentioned your book as

Unknown: 00:31:26

well? Is there a way to reach you if there's questions?

Unknown: 00:31:33

Well, there I do have a blog. So on Nate Rifkin calm it's just

Unknown: 00:31:37

just my name. And I post regularly. And, and yeah, for a

Unknown: 00:31:44

really kind of deep, like, get into the nitty gritty of the

Unknown: 00:31:47

story and kind of be held by the hand and lead through a lot of

Unknown: 00:31:52

this. A lot of the factors in spiritual walk. You know, I took

Unknown: 00:31:57

three years to write this book, and it's on Amazon. It's called

Unknown: 00:32:00

the standing meditation. And actually, I even have a website,

Unknown: 00:32:03

the standing meditation calm, which, which just goes to the

Unknown: 00:32:07

Amazon page, but makes things easy. So that that that would be

Unknown: 00:32:12

the way I mean, I wrote I wrote that book, in terms like if

Unknown: 00:32:14

some, if someone were I was at, you know, 13 years ago. This is

Unknown: 00:32:20

the book I would want hand it to them.

Unknown: 00:32:23

Mm hmm. That is so beautiful. Wonderful. So I will make sure

Unknown: 00:32:28

to put that in the show notes as well. And yeah, otherwise, thank

Unknown: 00:32:33

you so much for your time here today. Well, thank you or it's

Unknown: 00:32:38

been really, really wonderful. Thank you so much for listening

Unknown: 00:32:44

to this interview. And if you have any questions, reach out to

Unknown: 00:32:47

me on facebook. Aurora Eggert is my name there are on Instagram,

Unknown: 00:32:52

the Borealis experience. And if you enjoy my content here,

Unknown: 00:32:57

please leave me a review on Apple podcast, who would mean

Unknown: 00:33:02

the world to me. Thank you, and I will be out there very soon